Won't stop peeing in crate!

Mabbate · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:44 am Post subject: Won't stop peeing in crate!

Bailey is 15 weeks now and has been doing well in her crate EXCEPT we can not get her to stop peeing in it!! We take her out just before we leave to go anywhere and not even an hour later she has peed in it! We figured she would maybe grow out of it as she got older and more used to the crate but it does not seem to be happening. She has the bladder control to hold her urine through the night (sleeps on the bed) and even just hanging out she'll go 2 or 3 hours before having to go out. If anyone has had this problem before and fixed it PLEASE let me know! My apartment is starting to smell like a urinal! Thanks.

josie · Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:19 am Post subject:

I think you should have a read of this thread:

http://www.weimaraneraddict.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=4790#25972

sterlingsmom · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject:

ummmm...yeah. Still having the same exact problem with Sterling. Nothing has really worked. Although, we went a couple of days last week where she held it for about four hours, so maybe we're almost through it? I know how you feel. It's so freaking frustrating!!!

josie · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:28 pm Post subject:

sterlingsmom, are you still shutting her in the crate? If she's still peeing in there, I think the only way to break the habit is to leave it open and establish a place outside the crate as the toilet place first. (Ie a puppy pad or paper.)

Sophie · Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 9:09 pm Post subject:

My Wendy has this problem and in her case, it is separation anxiety, for a long time, I thought we were leaving her in her crate too long so she couldn't help it (night it was OK...) But we realized it was (and still is) separation anxiety! So we are working on it!!

sterlingsmom · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:16 am Post subject:

Hi Josie,
Yes, we are shutting her in there because I tried the method you suggested several times. I put the crate in the kitchen and left it open while shutting off the kitchen with a baby gate. I bought puppy wee pads and put them down in the kitchen. The first time I did it, I left for ten minutes. I came back and she shredded the wee pad all over the kitchen. She did this every single time I left her even if it was to go in the other room. She never cried when I left, so I don't think it's separation issues. She really has never exhibited signs of anxiety. One time I left to mow the yard, and not only did she shred the wee pad, but she chewed the bottom of my kitchen cabinets even though I left plenty of toys for her. The peeing in the crate is actually getting a little better. I had three days last week when I left her for about three hours and came back to a dry crate. I'm just hoping it's something she'll eventually grow out of. In the meantime, I've just invested in lots of cleaning products and laundry detergent. I guess I'd rather have to clean her cage than to replace my kitchen Shocked

josie · Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:02 am Post subject:

Does she make any attempt to shred the puppy pee pads when you are there and just watching her play? Because if she's only doing it and/or being destructive in other ways when you're away, then that would suggest S.A., and the weeing in the crate etc could also be SA related.

lilnanm · Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 10:03 pm Post subject:

My pup, Gracie still goes in her box and she is almost a year! I am particularly interested in the responses for your question. Our problem is almost exactly the same. She will hold it during the day if we are home and she is out of her box, but if we put her in it for a few minutes and leave, we come back to a wet box. She also goes at night almost consistently. I have even tried waking up in the middle of the night to take her out, but by morning it is wet. She doesn't just go in one spot and leave it either. She feels the need to spread it around until it is everywhere, splashing it on the carpet, walls, windows, and blinds The carpet in "her room" is destroyed! It smells so bad that we need to pull it up and replace it with laminate or something.

josie · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:47 am Post subject:

Yuck, I would definitely take her to the vet for a physical check up and then to a behaviourist who can take a look at her and your set up and give advice. Peeing in the crate at 1 yr old is definitely not normal. It's also not likely to just go away now - it will have become a big habit which has been "practised" many times.

If she is fine when you are around, no matter how long that is for, and this only happens if you are out and when she is isolated and you are asleep, then it could be separation anxiety.

lilnanm · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:41 am Post subject:

I agree that these are sound suggestions, but is there anything that I can do that doesn't cost a boatload of money? I know that it would not be money wasted, and would be well worth it to not have her peeing, but the funds just aren't there.

josie · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:08 am Post subject:

Well the first thing to do is to establish what the problem is.

When she is out of the crate and you are around, does she toilet anywhere else in the house, does she pee on the floor in "her" room, or does she pee outside only? Is peeing in the wrong place only happening when you're not around or is it happening at any other time as well?

If you crate her while you are around, does she pee in the crate still?

When she pees not in the crate and you are with her (on a walk or in the garden etc), does she do lots of littles pees or does she strain to pass just a drop of wee or does she ever look in discomfort when she pees?

Does she make noise or vocalise while you are away, do you know?

I would set up a video camera in her room when you all go out and watch exactly what happens - how the wee gets splattered everywhere would be very telling and her behaviour and body language would as well. You should be able to rent one pretty cheap if you don't have one already.

You have to figure out the cause before you can find a solution.

lilnanm · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:43 am Post subject:

Thanks for the tips, and responding so quickly.

She doesn't often go in the house while we are around(anymore! this was a long time in coming!). If she does, it's just because she can't hold it anymore and we haven't been paying attention.

Sometimes she does pee in the crate while she is in it and we are at home. We put her in there while we eat, etc. The peeing doesn't happen as often when we are home, though.

When she pees outside, it is usually normal. She is a Weim, so she sometimes gets distracted easily in mid-pee and stops, but then goes again.

Sometimes she whines while she's in the box and she does bark occasionally. Most of the time, though she just lays down and sleeps. If she is up and the (human) kids leave toys even a little close to her, she finds a way to get it and chew it to bits. I stopped putting toys in with her because inside ten min. they are disintegrated.

The video camera is a good idea. I will have to try it.

Thanks again!

josie · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:43 am Post subject:

Re the toys - have you tried black kongs and stuffing those, they are pretty indestructible?

It doesn't sound like separation anxiety to me, from what you say there. The fact that she even sometimes goes inside when you are around and sometimes pees in the crate when you are home make it sound less like separation anxiety and more like a house training problem (although this is only going by an online conversation).

The splattering of wee etc could actually be because she hates having the wee in the crate once she's done it and is trying to bury it or dig it away or something, so it isn't necessarily what you think (that she is wallowing in it!). If you can video her, you should get a better idea of that.

You say that, even to your (human) nose the carpet in her room smells of wee now. Dogs generally toilet in what smells, to them, like a toilet place. This is why indoors accidents should always be cleaned up thoroughly with clothes washing detergent which has enzymes in it to break down the ammonia and to stop it from smelling like a toilet, to the dog. If you don't clean it up with clothes washing detergent or similar (NOT bleach, which contains ammonia and will smell like pee to the dog) then the dog is highly likely to continue to toilet there because it smells like a toilet. So, if this room smells like a doggie toilet to you, it must really smell like one to her and she is likely to continue to toilet there. I would give it a really good clean with a carpet shampoo or something, really scrub her crate out with detergent and wash any bedding or toys in the room. Every time she wees in there, make sure everything which could be soiled is cleaned in this way. How is the wee getting on the carpet, is it because it is being splattered through the crate? Can you get or borrow a flight crate or Vari-kennel which is more enclosed and will prevent the wee from soiling your carpet? Sometimes you can pick these up 2nd hand pretty cheap. Otherwise I would drape a throw or blankets over it, to absorb the wee and stop it from getting to the carpet, and then you can wash those as needed.

Apart from that I would treat her as a little puppy - take her outside frequently to one spot in your yard, on leash, and take a pot of treats with you. Within 1 second of her weeing outside, give her a treat. Then she can go off leash if you want - the reason for keeping her on leash is so that you can be right next to her when she toilets and ready with a treat. Otherwise she will just run off and wee at the other end of the yard and you will miss the chance to reward within 1 second. This really helps with tough toilet training cases because, even when the dog doesn't care about sleeping in its wee, it soon realises that if it saves the wee up and does it outside, it gets a treat - if it wees inside, it gets nothing. You have to be consistent with this though, and give a treat every time, so put the pot of treats by the door so they are ready to grab. When you are home, I would take her out every 30 mins at the moment, to try to get there before she has "made" enough wee to even do in her crate if she wanted to!

How secure is the room where her crate is? Could she be left free in that room when you go out? The thing is - the habit is going to be hard to break if it continues when you are out, even if you are doing all of the above in the meantime. So you need some way of stopping it from happening while you are out. If you could leave her with the crate door open, and a pee pad in the room, you can try to get her peeing on the pee pad, which is infinitely better than peeing in her crate all the time. To achieve this, I would put the pee pad outside in the yard in the place where you are taking her on the leash to toilet, and try to get her to toilet on it there. If she won't, you can wait till she wees anyway and then dab the wee onto the pee pad afterwards, so it smells of her wee. Hopefully, if you leave her crate door open and the pee pad just outside it smelling of wee, she will choose to wee outside of her crate and on the pad and then you have something to work with.

It will be an uphill struggle though, because it's a habit which has been allowed to go unchecked for a long time and it's likely that, if she ever cared about sleeping in wee, she doesn't now and is well used to it. Good luck!

DucksWild · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 11:24 am Post subject:

I second Josie's suggestion about using a video camera. We taped Gracie when she was younger to find out what was happening in the crate. It was heartbreaking, complete panic. We tried a few different things but in the end doggie daycare (on the days we couldn't be home with her) and hard work on house manners had her roaming free with Anja in the house by about 15 months. It was not easy by any means. It was often frustrating and expensive, but I am sure glad we stuck it out.