Training Methods

RenaBella · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: Training Methods

What was the method you followed when training your dog?

We've trained dogs before but never really stuck to a specific training method - just did it our way.

I've bought two books on Positive training; The Idiot's Guide to Positive Dog Training and the Puppy Whisperer (which advocated Positive training.)
I've also watched a bunch of episodes of the Cesar Milan's Dog's Whisperer.

I do like how assertive Cesar Milan is but I can't stand the use of force and I noticed he does that. But at the same time, I don't like how positive training totally prohibits the word 'No'. I want to be assertive and clear but still positive. No punishments or force.

Any advice and suggestions?

DoubleTrouble · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:56 am Post subject:

We went to a local obedience class. We do basically the same idea as clicker training, but use a word instead of the clicker. "Good" or "Yes". And when they don't do it right (sit, instead of stand or move on a stay) we use an word telling them they did it wrong, but not in a harsh way. We just say "oops" casually. We still use "NO!" when they are doing something that is NEVER permitted-- more typically outside of training. It works very well for us. Once they knew their commands well, we added in hand signals. Jo is ridiculously enthusiastic about training and literally throws herself on the floor for down and leaps up in the air before sitting. Laughing

Django · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Training Methods

peppernaei · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:19 am Post subject:

I try to use a positive method or redirection rather than punishment. I do use "wrong" calmly when cue is known but given incorrectly (i.e. I ask for sit and get a down). Although I have had many dogs, I attended obedience class for the first time with Marvin, our school encouraged us to teach the hand signals first (before the word) and it worked wonderfully. I think it helped the puppies stay focused on their handers. We use "no" around the house for stop what you are doing, shock factor command. Mainly because our other dog gets it too.

I have only seen a few of Cesar's episodes and Brad Pattison's "End of My Leash". I don't agree with all of their tactics but I have taken a few ideas from them. I also read the Tamar Gellar's "The Loved Dog" which is also a positive training book.

I mainly stick with what works for me -- cause it works -- and if I have an issue I am more than happy to take advice.

anne · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject:

I use positives to TEACH and punishment when a dog knows something and is being defiant. Most normal dogs are not defiant by nature on a regular basis, and the problems with obedience are usually due to them not really knowing something.
For example a dog that knows sit at home may not do it at a park, that doesn't mean the dog is being defiant, it means he hasn't generalized the command elsewhere.

EVERY DOG OWNER should read Jean Donaldson's "Culture Clash" IMO. If you understand how a dog thinks, the issue really isn't about what methods to use.... you will be training 24/7 and molding their behavior all the time. Also she is more positive in general.

The problem with punishment-based training is that it is very effect and is humane, if done right, but most people do not do it right! If you already know that you don't like to punish (and most people really don't have the consittution for it) then you will never train the dog correctly that way. Also there is far more latitude in not "messing up" your dog if you make a mistake with positive training; you can really screw a dog up if you make a mistake with punishment based training.

Also most positive based training is based on scientific learning principles. (Do a google search on "operant conditioning.")

OliversMommy · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject:

I read Oprah's dog trainers book called "The Loved Dog: The Playful and Non Aggressive Way to Teach Your Dog Good Manners" by Tamar Gellar. I read this book front to back and still consult it regularly. I have had wonderful success with Ollie using her methods! Very Happy

harpbonefran · Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:51 pm Post subject:

As much as I like the Dog Whisperer, I like "It's Me or the Dog" even better. It is shown on Animal Planet channel and the trainer is Victoria Stillwell. She uses only positive training methods and seems to have great results with even the worst of dogs. I think I've seen just about every episode and have learned a LOT from her. Check it out of you get Animal Planet.

weim2mom · Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:41 am Post subject:

peppernaei · Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject:

For the Canuks out there...

There is an article on heavy handed training in the "Dogs in Canada" magazine this month.

Not training related but there is one on Lepto and Kennel Cough.

Most of the magazine is fuffy pieces but I like the few informative ones on current issues, medical stuff and breedlines. I noticed there hasn't been a Weim breedlines in a long time and I was thinking about writing one or an article for the open page about our field experiences as a newbie.

versatilek9s · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:10 am Post subject:

Pick and choose things that work for you and--most important--work for your dog!

Almost all dog training is based on the old classical and operant conditioning, i.e. dog does right behavior=reward; dog does wrong=punishment. Punishment isn't necessarily physical or negative, but it does have to be immediate. All dog training is based on this.

A good book to look at is "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson, it gives a good perspective on all the "feel good" dog training, why dominance isn't always the problem (a la Cesar Milan), and gives some good exercises in the back that are step by step. I have gone back to this book again and again, and I also use some of the things I've gleaned from the gun dog training books and videos.

When teaching new things, make sure your dog isn't confused. If they screw up, go back a step to something they do well--and always end with something they do well.

Most importantly with weims, they have to be having a good time! We've found that playing ball or giving them short off-leash sessions between lessons works wonders to keep them focused. If their tail is tucked or at half-mast, they aren't having a good time.

meredith

RenaBella · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:30 am Post subject:

I ended up buying a book called The Puppy Whisperer (has nothing to do with Cesar Milan) and I love it.

I'm all for positive training. I couldn't hit a dog!

SoonerDog · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: Bark Busters

We called BarkBusters and I was very impressed. Now Sooner has a trainer for life. She emails me and calls me to make sure Sooner is doing well. It is pack-training, teaching you to be the leader and the dog to be the follower. He never pulls on a leash, comes when I call him, and is almost a different dog now. It's kinda crazy. You call a 1-800- ### and they direct you to the trainer in your area. I think I paid about $550 and she came out for 4 hours. She gave us homework and we did it. We are now one big happy family.
I think BarkBusters has a website too. I highly recommend it! Smile