3 1/2 mo pup - Learns quickly, but doesn't listen outside

wshive

Someone posted a similar topic, but it didn't really answer my questions, so here goes...

Just got a weim pup about a week and a half ago. Yay! Very Happy

He learns so quickly, it's kind of mind boggling (I use treats, cut up extremely small). I've already taught him sit, stay, down, come, and even to go in his crate--I'm pretty sure none of which he knew before (he was a rescue from the animal shelter--probably a puppy mill breeder). He'll do all of them without treats, though down is still fairly new (like yesterday). Smile

The problem is he doesn't really listen to me when he's outside. Every time he poops, I give him the sit command so I can pick up after him, but he just ignores me until I push his butt down. He will come on occasion, but if there's a person/dog walking by, forget about it. Stay is pretty ineffective as well. I always have him on a leash, and even late at night when there are no cars driving by or people walking by, he still won't listen. I can never get him to focus on me the way he does when he's inside.

I know he's just a pup, and I haven't had him for long, so this is more of a preemptive question. What is the best thing to do to get him to start responding to commands when outside? Here's what I've been thinking:

1. Use treats outside--my worry here is he won't focus on me unless I show him the treat, so I have to have treats all the time

2. Associate his name with a treat, so in the future I can just say his name and he'll focus--even though he has a strong association with his name already (when inside), he hardly ever listens when outside. Also, wouldn't there be a danger of him thinking he's doing something good every time he hears his name?

3. Take him out and just stand and walk around the neighborhood a bunch until he gets used to all of it--will he really ever get used all the commotion outside such that he'll start listening to me again?

4. He's a puppy, silly, just wait! Razz

Oh, and a (bonus) question about leash pulling... I don't want to use a special collar or harness to get this under control. That said, I've been quickly snapping the leash if he pulls too much (Cesar Milan style) and stopping and waiting if he really gets out of hand. Is this the right approach? Is there anything else I can be doing? How long will this take to set in? Ideally, I'd like him to walk BEHIND me on a loose leash, but I have no idea how to achieve this...

Colleen74 · Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject:

rule #1 : never give a command you can't enforce RIGHT AWAY at this stage. Meaning if he's outside a distance away from you and you tell him to come and you have no means of MAKING him come...he'll start developing bad habits like ignoring you while outdoors. If he's outside where you plan on giving him commands like come/sit/stay you could put him on a check cord. That way when you give the command you just reel him in and place him in a sit with LOTS of praise or treats. It depends on the dog how quickly this sets in...but if you ever have they occasion after he's off the check cord where he ignores commands...put him right back in kindergarten with the check cord back on.

You are right when you say they learn extremely quickly...that includes what they can and can't get away with whether they are in or outdoors. Using treats is great but use them intermittently (meaning treats sometimes and praise others).

About the leash pulling. I don't think there's a weim in existence that isn't a puller. Heal work is necessary when they are young but expect that as he gets older and stronger you *may* have to move to another collar. I'd get him into obedience class if you haven't already. Heal working in a group environment with other dogs really helps.

weimdogmom · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:15 am Post subject:

Dogs don't generalize well. Everything you teach him in your house, you will need to teach wherever you go. Also, as you are finding out, there are many more distractions outside.

Now would be a good time to also learn: leave it, drop it and watch me...

PamK · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:48 am Post subject:

I was told never to use his name unless I wanted him to come to me. He knows when I am talking to him or someone else. If you disagree with this that's OK because I don't know why I was taught that.

Are you using hand signals too? Maybe that would help outside.

peppernaei · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:41 am Post subject:

I would suggest an obedience class. Its is a great way to learn new things, socialize and introduce distraction.

I would get him out to see everything and meet people as much as possible.

You can start with distractions at home. I used my husband - he would throw toys, squeak the squeaky ones, play with our other dog and run around. Anything to make himself look more fun. We worked our way up to sessions in the driveway, on the sidewalk, at the kiddy park, outside our local dog park and then inside the dog park (away from the main action). For me it worked better if we trained first and played after. Because once he was in play mode he was harder to focus.

We don't use his name all the time and save it for times we really needed attention. We use "focus" when we want him to pay attention to us and we taught it by hold food up by our faces and when he held eye contact saying "focus" and treating. Our trainer puts the food in her mouth but as a vegetarian I wasn't interested in that Wink

I wouldn't worry about treats and compliance. I treat sometime and don't treat other times so he never knows what is coming. When I am training something new I almost always use treats and sometimes I use "high value" treats like real meat if I know it might be harder to learn.

I agree with PamK, hand signals are a great idea too. Some dogs listen better to them and in the beginning they can reinforce the voice. They are really handy when the dog is away from you and it is noisy.

Good luck!

shouseholder · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:13 am Post subject:

Try changing directions if the pulling doesn't stop. Mischa ussually pulls so she can get somewhere, changing directions makes her realize she definitly can't get there by pulling. We looked a little crazy at first and hardly made it down the driveway, but after working at it, it was better.

wshive · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject:

Hey all, thanks for the tips!

I am realizing that I need to work on doing obedience stuff outside. It seems that treats are prob the only way I'm going to get him to pay attention. I suppose if I make them intermittent, he's more likely to pay attention when I don't have a treat on me.

I do have trouble getting him to focus while outside if I don't wave a treat in front of his nose, but I am torn between using his name or another word, like "focus." Any other opinions about this? I only use his name when I want him to look at me, so I can give him a command and not when I'm disciplining.

As for hand signals, I did start him off with them, but I noticed that he wouldn't respond to just the word or hand signal. It seemed worse to have to use both (particularly outside when he doesn't look at me), so I switched to using words only. Once I think he responds well to the words, I'll work hand signals back in and get him to learn them alone. Sometimes I use a hand signal along with the verbal command for stay (which I've taught him to mean stop and don't move) because getting him to stop dead in his tracks while moving was tough, so the hand signal helped reinforce that.

I'll think about an obedience class, but the DIYer in me feels like I can do this on my own--I know, I'm bull-headed like my dog. Wink

As for leash pulling, I tried the turn around tactic, but frankly I lost patience for it when it didn't seem to be working. Maybe I should try it again, but he seems to want to always go and smell the next patch of grass. If I turn around, he just wants the patch that's in that direction instead. I've been snapping on the leash (sometimes pretty hard), and it gets him under control temporarily. The prob is he just thinks he has to behave temporarily because he just starts pulling again after a short time. I understand that a lot of people think leash pulling is just a characteristic of weims, and maybe they're predisposed to it, but I gotta believe there's a way to get them under control w/o the use of a special leash/harness.

weimdogmom · Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject:

wshive · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:00 am Post subject:

shouseholder · Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:13 am Post subject:

The turn around thing does make you pretty dizzy at first, but after a week or so, Mischa got a little better. We only walked as far as we could go without her pulling. Didn't get very far, but it seems to help. I still do it now from time to time if she really wants at something.

hoochmamas · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:27 am Post subject:

oh puppy training..
i, too, did not want to resort to a "harsher" training collar.. but the training harness was the suspect of a pulled shoulder muscle which caused a wicked limp for a while..
the changing directions and standing still works most of the time, as well as a treat for walking "slow" at my left.. 1 treat broken up can last for 4 rewards.. not that much in the grand scheme of a well walking weim..
i use a choke collar that is 3/4 fabric and 1/4 chain.. that's what works for us.. i barely have to "pop" it now.. but glad i have the option if needed.. ie.. other dogs, bunnies, dead birds, etc.. as a reminder, if "eyes up" or "slow" isn't doing the trick.. most of the time it is just loose around his neck when we walk like his other collar.
every dog is different.. but i would work really hard on leash training now before he gets huge.. cause he will!
there is a good thread on loose lead walking that helped a lot..
and i agree with the others.. train with one distraction at a time.. so he can get it.. if he is food motivated, so be it..
good luck!

Christina · Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:59 am Post subject:

I agree with most of the others on here. I would get into an obedience class. When we adopted our puppy in February this we year immediately got her into an obedience class. The puppy training class we went to was only like $70 for an 8 week class and let me tell you it was well worth the money. The one thing that totally made the class worth the money to me is the training where you teach your dog NOT to come out of their crate until you give the command "ok". This was such an easy thing to teach as well. This has helped us so much, not only with the crate but in the car. She sees the door open and she sits and waits until we give her the "ok" to come out of the vehicle. We learned a lot in our puppy class and it is stuff that we can now pass on to any foster dogs we might bring in, etc. We have learned that obedience is something that takes a lot of time and training. They told us that "come" will take a very long time to get down and to never us that command unless you can enforce it. They told us that we have to enforce all our commands because if not she will start picking the choosing when she is going to listen to us. They also told us to talk happy and the sillier we sound the better, the dogs react better to a silly sound. Our neighbors probably think we are nuts when we go for a walk, but it will be worth it to have a dog that is not pulling us around.