heard it before, but..

hoochmamas · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: heard it before, but..

Hooch is a great dog.. he generaly likes to please me and is a big smoosh.. but sometimes.. and only sometimes..
when we walk.. and it is more people than just him and i, ie.. kade on his bike, cass with us, other people/dogs he knows around the neighborhood.. he is capable of losing all of his manners, and pulls to DEATH.. i use a choke training collar (only on walks).. doesn't care that he is choking or that i am saying, "slow" with a yummy treat.. once he loses focus, it's over..
if my command word isn't working, the lure of the treat for completing said command isn't remotely interesting..stopping the walk and guiding his tush down into a sit just makes him sit and choke himself.. how can i get him to redirect his energy on me?
i hate that he gets so "off the path".. and i know he is a teenage weim now.. i was wondering if i am missing some other method of refocusing when he is so completely distracted..

versatilek9s · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:35 am Post subject:

IMO, this can happen to the best trained dogs! I'll be the first to admit that my dogs--who outweigh me easily--have dragged me down the sidewalk yelling. Embarassed

There's always the potential of finding something that's more interesting than you and more interesting that your training. Cats cause this problem on our walks.

One thing to remember with a choke collar or prong collar is that the idea is a quick pop, not a tug. Other than a correction, the leash should stay loose at all times. This is way easier said then done! Constant pressure and tugging on the choke chain is rewarding (for some weird reason), so they have to learn the difference between loose leash (=moving forward) and tight leash (=correction).

Don't know if it will work, but carry treats with you whenever you remember. And get a bulletproof "watch me!" command, then proof it in as many places as you can. Generally if I can get them to look at my face, we have less of a problem. Take the dog to places that are distracting. But with hunting dogs there's always a question...that's why a field champion or master hunter is one of the hardest things to get! Prey drive will almost always override training unless you work really, really hard at it--and then you still lose sometimes!

meredith

hoochmamas · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject:

DukesMom · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject:

I can't say enough about the difference a prong collar has made with both of my dogs. It is amazing! There is no choking because there is no pulling. I do not like regular choke collars because well they choke them. My dogs have never choked themselves with the prong collar although they will choke themselves and pull like crazy on a regular flat collar. It was like night and day the difference with both of them. You really must give it a try! (and yes you are not supposed to apply constant pressure but give small jerks if they pull)

weimdogmom · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject:

How often do you and Hooch walk with other people? It sounds like he is well trained when it's just the two of you. Dogs don't generalize well, and he may not yet understand that the same 'rules' that apply when you two are walking also apply when others (added distractions) are along with you. More practice and walks with others, I imagine, will help quite a bit.

I agree with Dukesmom about the prong collar. I don't use one, but Allen has used one with Jazz in the past, and it did make a big difference. If it fits properly and is used properly it's a great training tool. With a choke collar or a flat collar dogs will pull at a fairly steady pace and not seem to might the choking/gagging/discomfort. With the prong collar, Jazz would pull a little and then back off. You might need to give a quick correction, but I think for some dogs, you may not even need that too often. The prongs should not dig into the dog's skin or break the skin at all. The feeling, I think, is more of a pinch.

DukesMom · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject:

When we first started walking Duke and Gracie together Duke did pull a little to get out ahead of Gracie, but after a few times it doesn't seem to matter to him anymore.
Seriously Duke and Gracie both were ripping my arms off on walks. It was ridiculous. I tried everything in the book. Then I got Duke a prong collar and he was a different dog. Since Gracie is so much smaller I didn't think she'd pull like Duke did - but boy was I wrong! So I went and bought Gracie a prong collar too. The first time I put it on her it was like I had a new dog and there's been no pulling since. I've tried to get Duke off the prong collar and back on a flat collar but no go.

weimdogmom · Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject:

oceanaussi · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 3:19 am Post subject:

Quen is a strong 5-month-old boy and he can pull! I tried a choker but he still pulls. Prong Collars are illegal here, so I use the Blackdog Infin8 Halti which is like a mixture between the normal Halti and a martingale (sp?) collar.

To pracice heeling and actually watching me rather than everything else, we went to a large open area without distractions. Of we went and as soon as he started pulling I turned and changed directions by 90°, he pulls, 90° turn, he looks around not concentrating on me, I turn. The first time we did this for 3 hours! It was pure exhaustionthat he didn't pull any more and he looked at me for mercy. We repeated this every 2nd day (never took that long again). I increased difficulty in having my other dog with us, making her sit in the middle, not allowing him to go to her while we heel or have some food around the place or playing kids ect. This is now about 1 month ago. He now heels off lead beside me and watches me constantly. Dogs walk pass, people ect and he just heels next to me. He's not stabil yet but we're getting there, he's only 5 months old...

hoochmamas · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:01 am Post subject:

oceanaussi · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:09 am Post subject:

Well they're actually not illegal to use but illegal to sell, so you only can get them from overseas with a special permit. Don't ask me why, it's a strange country sometimes.

Good luck with your Weim! Teach him to watch you (reinforcement with food) and use it while you walk him. Everytime he starts getting distracted say 'watch' and when he does, he gets a treat. Might be a bit annoying during a conversation but better than being draged away by your Weim...

hoochmamas · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:22 am Post subject:

yes.. he knows "eyes up".. i will try that while we walk today.. usually i just say, "hooch" in a very high pitch when he seems he is close to being distracted, and when he looks give him lots of praise.. sometimes a treat.. gotta keep him guessing..

shouseholder · Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:46 am Post subject:

Our trainer had us pop the collar (quick tugs) until they pay attention. The snaps on her collar don't seem to hurt Mischa, but they annoy her enough that she eventually looks at me to see why I am correcting her and then it breaks her out of that zone. I just keep doing it until she looks.