PLEASE HELP WITH SEPARATION ANXIETY

Ilovemygus

I'm so embarrassed and ashamed that my 10 month weim STILL has separation anxiety.I have tried crating him and he HATES it. We took the crate out and gave him his own room only to find that he has eaten the walls and door. Everyday I come home to find urine and smear marks on the floor from where feces used to be. He eats he own poo and pees outside of the door (the door is a wooden frame with metal rods threw it)

I give him treats for when he goes in his room before I leave and I come home to that. I am not aloud to give him any cloth toys, ropes, or any food that isn't apart of his hypoallergenic diet.

He sleeps with us at night and doesn't mess or wake us up. But once I leave and not nearly 2 minutes after I am out the door he is howling and messing.

We can leave him in the car for hours on end if the air conditioning is running and the radio is on. At home he can't be left alone. Not even with a fan and radio on. He hates it. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP!!!

Colleen74 · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject:

Wooow! I really feel for you and know EXACTLY what you're going through. I can only share my own experience and maybe you can try and see if this works. When Ethel was a youngster (she's now 9) she never took to a crate. She would destroy them within a week....but whats worse was she would mess herself because she'd be in such a panic. Nothing like coming home everyday and cleaning the urine/poop off your dog. Like you, we tried confining her to a room, which she would destroy as well. Scratching the walls literally trying to dig herself out....and yes, poop and pee everywhere! We found that if we just let her have the run of the house...she was perfectly happy! This originally made me very uncomfortable because I'm a firm believer in crate training. Yes, we had a few small destructive episodes....like a shoe chewed or something...but nothing to the effect of putting her in a crate or shutting her in a room. What we had to do, though, is make sure all the doors to bedrooms were shut because she developed (and still has) a very odd habit of walking into a room and closing the door behind her. And the BOOM! PANIC MODE! My husband and I have on a couple occasions forgot to make sure all the bedroom/bathroom doors were closed and have pulled up to the house to a SCREAMING dog and quite a mess to clean up. Because her "shut in" anxiety was so severe....we just learned to a "things to do before you leave the house" routine by shutting all the doors and dog proofing. In your case...I'd try leaving her for small amounts of time and see how it goes. Just dog proof really well. I don't know...some dogs just never take to a crate no matter how much positive reinforcement you try.

versatilek9s · Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject:

First step...more exercise.

Second step...training. Mental exercise is as important--if not more important--as physical exercise for these guys.

Start an agility class, teach some new tricks, make her work for her food, etc. Very Happy

I know these two things are incredibly cliched, but they work. It may or may not be "true" separation anxiety, but if you get rid of any of the other causes for the behavior, you can see what you have to work with. Beyond that, there are plenty of threads about crate training...in your case crate "re-training." It all still applies, even with an older dog.

A decent article and some good links:

http://www.wagntrain.com/SeparationAnx.htm

Hope that helps, and good luck.

meredith

DoubleTrouble · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 8:55 am Post subject:

One of my dogs has very bad SA. With us, it has taken a lot of playing around with different ideas to see what works. He hated the crate and we tried a couple before finding one he was okay with and then it took a bit of work to keep him in it. He does not like the plastic kind, but the wire kind are acceptable. Another thing that helped was that we made him sleep in it at night. This helped him take to it quickly, too, I think.

I withhold his morning food when I am going somewhere and put it in a kong with a bit of yogurt to close off the end. He normally isn't too enthusiastic about kongs and bones enough to entice him in the crate, but because he does not get other food, he will go into the crate if he is getting his breakfast. I also feed them in the crate for every meal, with the doors open.

If I exercise him a lot, it is hit or miss if it will make him more willing to go into the crate, but it does help with his anxiety a bit. I also gave him Rescue Remedy (it is in the natural remedy section of big grocery stores and at health food stores) at first or whenever it was going to be a particularly stressful day.

Also, you said he sleeps with you, which made me wonder if it is a dominance thing? Someone on this forum told me that their dog believed he was dominant and when they started working with him on that, everything fell into place. Weims think they are humans and sleeping with you can make them believe they are on an equal plain. Do you practice NILIF (google it or see http://k9deb.com/nilif.htm) with him? I never thought of Cache as dominant in any way and he did not sleep with me at night, but would hop into bed with me once my bf left in the morning. Once I put him in the crate at night, he became better with it during the day. It also helped to have the crate right next to my bed (but not so close he can pull the sheets in and destroy them when left alone).

This are just a handful of things we tried with him. And the things that worked for us. Bringing him a behavioral specialist is definitely recommended and working with your vet(we've had many SA-specific vet visits) can be really helpful too.

DukesMom · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:21 am Post subject:

I feel for you! My dogs don't have any problems with being in their crates when I leave....as a matter of fact they go in there often throughout the day even when I'm home. They love their crates and all I have to do is get a treat and say "crate up" and they both run right in and go to sleep. Now I did start their crate training from day one when I got them as puppies and I'm sure that made all the difference in the world AND I am home most of the time and the max I like to leave them in their crates if I have to go somewhere is 4 hours.
How long are you gone during the day? Do you ever put him in the crate when you're at home? I think this makes a huge difference because my dogs don't associate going in the crate with me leaving. I would definitely not let him roam free in the room and would work on crate training again. It is the safest place for him and you.

DukesMom · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:24 am Post subject:

And I would stop the sleeping with you right away. Rather I would put the crate next to your bed where you can talk to him and/or touch him if he cries but I would not let him out. You're basically going to need to crate train all over again...which may mean some sleepless nights unfortunately.

DukesMom · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:25 am Post subject:

And I would use the metal crate not the plastic one. He can see out it and you can stick your fingers in it to console him if necessary.

aschmoll · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:42 am Post subject:

I feel for you. We are going through some similar struggles with Duchess. When we got Duchess, her foster mom said she was crate trained, but she was also taking her to work a lot, and when she was crated, she had three other dogs that were being crated in the same room. Since we can't take her to work and are not going to get a second dog, it must have been a big adjustment for Duchess.

Duchess broke her first crate, one of the wire ones from Petco, escaped twice, and pooped on our bedroom floor. She also scratched her nose pretty badly after we had secured that first crate. A friend of ours had a heavy-duty crate, and she hates it, but at least she is not harming herself anymore. I think she knows that she can't get out so she has stopped trying. But she whines and barks when we put her in in the morning. Sometimes she will not go in on command, so I use her leash and lead her into the crate (always take their collar off though before you lock the crate). She has also destroyed two crate beds that we left with her, and two stuffies. Now the only thing she has in her crate when we leave is a rope toy and a kong stuffed with treats. I like the idea of using that as her breakfast instead of a separate feeding.

I think DT also had some good advice about using crates more when your home, and we may start doing that too. Our vet prescribed Reconcile, which is basically Prozac, and as part of the program you phase in the amount of time you are gone. She has only been on it for a week, so we will need a little longer to see if it works, but I think she seems a little calmer when we get home, and I think she drools less than she was. One thing that we have done, and this is probably more because Duchess is snores and wakes us up at night, is that we put Duchess in a separate room when we go to bed. However, I think it also is getting her more used to us not being there, and hopefully will make her calmer when we go away during the day.

One thing that is hard for me, and I think a lot of people, is that even though weims are often described in terms of human traits, they are dogs, not people. So treat them like dogs! Affection at the wrong time is confusing to dogs, so we ignore Duchess as we are leaving and when we get home. When she is calm and will sit, we let her out of her crate. Even if she never likes her crate (and we may need to get a webcam to see what she does when we are not there), I am not sure that we will ever leave her out of her crate when we are gone, for her protection and our peace of mind.

DukesMom · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:49 am Post subject:

I ignore my dogs when I first come home too. I put my purse down, use the potty etc etc all the while ignoring them. And they just stay laying down and don't make a peep until I go in to let them out.
I think something really important to remember is that if you ONLY put them in their crates when you are getting ready to leave them they associate the crate with you leaving and it becomes a negative thing. My dogs love their crates! They go in them willingly and always lay down immediately and go to sleep.

aschmoll · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:12 am Post subject:

Thanks. I think we will try moving her crate into our tv room when we are home so that she can lounge out in there with us. Do you feed your dogs in their crates too? Right now we have her crate in our breakfast nook and feed Duchess there. I think we will still need to have the crate in the nook when we leave so that we aren't subjecting our rabbits to the whining and barking.

NYWeimLover · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject:

We had a similar experience to Colleen 74, when we adopted our at the time 2-year Old "Crate Trained" Jake. He would willingly go into his crate while we were home, but would become distraught when we left the house. He Destroyed anything that we left within reach of the crate. His destruction included the bottom plastic liner tray, once that was destroyed it was the carpet that was shredded, he wore the plastic coating off of the wire with his scratching and chewing, and bloodied his nose and mouth repeatedly. We would come home to a Dog that was foaming at the mouth.

We approached our Vet about obtaining some "doggy Prozac" and he suggested that we allow Jake full run of the house prior to trying medication. We followed his recommendation leaving for progressively longer periods of time each time. Since we have allowed him run of the house he had never had an accident nor chewed anything that was inappropriate. We do leave him with a Kong that is stuffed with treats to work on while we are not home.

Leaving him unsupervised, given his previous state of frenetic mind, was a stretch of faith for us at the time, but we are so happy that we did. Jake is a much happier dog as a result. Best wishes for a long term solution that appeases both you and "Gus".

krisnkaipo · Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject:

Exercise, exercise, exercise!!! I can't stress that enough. I have a neighbor whose dog barks and destroys his house, he takes her for maybe a 20 minute walk in the afternoon when he gets home and sometimes to the dog park. Nothing in the morning and he is surprised he somes home to a shredded house. Take a long walk in the morning play ball whatever you need to do to exhaust them!

I give Wilson so much exercise that now I think he is relieved to be left alone 'cause he can go take a nap! I always make sure he is calm and relaxed when i leave as I have found that if he is agitated when i leave he is usually still agitated when i come home.