hooch vs. the deer

hoochmamas · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: hooch vs. the deer

so, i went to work last night, cass took hooch and k to the nearby field for one last romp before bed.. a deer was peeking out his head through the bushes.. hooch started to "stalk".. cass let it go.. and then Hooch hauled a** at the thing, chasing it clear across the field and into the woods.. hooch was out of sight, and WOULD NOT come when called.. kade was crying, cass was flipping.. approx. 3 minutes later he appeared..
cass took him home.
we went back tonight, all of us, because i don't want it to become a fear thing.. i had his little plastic container of treats, that almost guarantees a "come" when i shake it..
we played frisbee like usual.. he did really well.. we practiced some recall without treats.. just praise.. we took him back to the car ON LEAD and there was a deer.. of course.. when he "stalks" the cat, we say "no cat".. so we tightened up on the lead, said "no cat" and kept walking. he did well.
any advice on how to train him to guarantee a recall? that must have been so scary for them.. i know he is a hunting dog.. but our desire is that he be our obedient dog first.. hunting dog, second..
thanks.

simis · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:45 pm Post subject:

Someone else had asked about this recently and this is what I think is important:

http://www.weimaraneraddict.com/discussion/recall-w-distractions-any-suggestions-vt9075.html?highlight=

simis · Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject:

Also, did you guys ever train for RRR (Really Reliable Recall)?

hoochmamas · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:04 am Post subject:

yes. i did read that response. he does so well with everything else.. he listens to commands 98% of the time on the first try, but not "come".
maybe we ned to change the word. sometimes he will flat out lay down in the house when i call him to go outside.. it's become a game. as soon as i run the other way, he will follow most of the time when indoors, almost everytime ourdoors.. it's just when he gets fixated on an animal, really.. which i expect. i know he is a dog.. i just don't know how to break that trance for sure.. every time. i am more afraid of him going to far and getting hit by a car.. i truly don't think he would hurt a fly..
what is RRR?

NenaGunther · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:15 am Post subject:

I have the dvd of the Really Reliable Recall, pm me if you want to borrow it, I can drop it in the mail.

I bought it because of our Simon, he had the worst recall ever! It was hard for me to do the steps, because I didn't have a contained area, then we ended up putting in an invisible fence.

Where I live hiking with the dogs is fun, but there is always lots of wild animals and mostly are deer and rabbits. When we hike I have a whistle and Nena knows that if she hears the whistle, she better be next to me in 2 seconds. I can call her off of chasing a deer with it. When we are in the yard and I need her to come right now, I say "Nena Come" NOW! She knows the difference and it works pretty well.

hoochmamas · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:24 am Post subject:

thank you for the offer.. i did PM you. like i have said.. i don't care if he doesn't balance a treat on his nose perfectly.. every time.. but recall is so important.. especially now that he is approaching teenage land!

simis · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:33 am Post subject:

Very cool - I haven't see the DVD, just have the handbook. If you borrow NenaGunther's DVD I'm sure it goes over this, but it's so important that you choose a word that you rarely use in everyday language for your recall word - so that Hooch doesn't hear it all the time. We use "HURRY!" and get down low to the ground and hold our arms out during practice, and when she comes flying in grab the collar (its good practice in case a stranger has to catch him to get him used to bring grabbed up there just in case) and PRAISE, literally give tiny pieces of treats from your closed fist for 30-45 seconds. It feels like eons but its how we trained and I've been pretty happy with Rosie coming back. Not to say we haven't had our moments, but having that confidence that you can at least break their concentration on whatever it is is IMO crucial. He's a good boy, don't worry he'll probably have at least one more flight period so training now would be the most beneficial for you all. I hope it works well for you!

hoochmamas · Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject:

just FYI, i taught Hooch my version of "heel" today, where i said "heel" and Hooch would come and sit next to my left leg, and stay there. we practiced a lot.. on lead outside, and off lead from another room (where he couldn't see me) in the house. he is doing quite well with this, so until i study that DVD and start the RRR, at least i feel a little more secure with a command that will get him back to me. Very Happy

hoochmamas · Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:44 am Post subject:

update.. got the dvd.. thank you so much.. planning on watching it with cass today.. you think weims have ADD? try and get her to sit still.. Laughing

as soon as i am done, i will mail it back.. thank you again for your generosity.
Hooch has been doing a little better with recall.. much more interested in where the frisbee is on the field than heeling.. but he will do it.. or i make him do it, when in the field.
on walks and in the house he's got it down.. every time.

simis · Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject:

How's Hooch doing with his recall - I think you are on vacation right now but whenever you're back....did the RRR help any?

hoochmamas · Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:31 am Post subject:

we are still working on it.. he will now come from across a field for some fine dining cheese.. but until he is solid on looking/coming without distraction.. we are waiting to start training the RRR.. really want to nail that one.. but he is much better, thank you for asking.
yesterday i got him to watch me and walk right passed a bunny 4 feet away..
very proud.. training is a process..

hoochmamas · Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject:

just an update.. still have the DVD.. haven't taken notes yet, but plan to. i am a bit of a procrastinator sometimes.. i apologize..

today, we were a the field playing frisbee.. we wrapped up our session, started heading toward the car.. hooch was quite a distance in front of us with Kade, at least 50 feet.. maybe more.. and he took off toward the woods after a bunny..
i crouched down, and just said "hooch" in that real high pitched voice, he turned, i was clapping like a lunatic.. saying "good boy".. and he darted straight to me.. happy as a clam..
whew...

Cool

DukesMom · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:53 am Post subject:

Can you share what's in the video? I would love to teach this to my dogs. I was at Petco the other day meeting my daughter there. I have one of those pet guards in the back of my jeep to keep the dogs in the back and I didn't realize one of my back seats were down. Well Gracie had squeezed under the pet guard and was in the back seat. I got her out and put the seat up and when I opened the back of the jeep to put her in, Duke jumped out and was running around the Petco parking lot like a mad dog. He wouldn't get far from me but was darting around and around. I had to hold Gracie in the back while calling him. He did finally come and jump in and it didn't take but a few seconds probably (but if felt like minutes) but there were cars and people everywhere and it scared the you know what outta me!

hoochmamas · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:15 am Post subject:

the basic idea is to engrave a conditioned response so they HAVE TO listen to you.. they can't help it..
the video recommends clicker training or saying a specific word, and treating with it.. every time.. to start..
they also say not to use their name so much, but rather an interesting sound to grab their attention..
something different than what they are accustomed to not listening to..
the second they turn around and you grabbed their attention.. start clapping and praising like mad.. like they really were in danger.. so they are compelled to come to you.. i crouch down, too.. so it's a play stance..
when they get to you, give them a fantastic treat.. in little tiny pieces, over 35 seconds or so.. along with praise.. they call it "fine dining".. only do this when they come, so they know this is the reward for only that behavior....
eventually you incorporate an emergency command.. but we are still working on the basic recall..
i hope i didn't butcher it too bad.. it's worth reading/watching.. they say it could take a year or so to reliably work..
i need to watch it again and take notes so i can return it, but i think it is worth purchasing on your own..

DukesMom · Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:24 am Post subject:

That's kinda what I do already. Duke loves to be told "good boy" and any time I can't get him to do something I just say "good boy Dukie" in a real sweet voice and he does it. Another almost guaranteed word with him is "treat?". I guess I just need to keep working on it. If he's out in the back yard and I call him he comes immediately 100% of the time (no matter what he's doing he stops immediately). It is so cool! But I don't trust him off leash out in the world. I was taking him off leash and working with him for a while and he was doing good until one day a lady went walking by with her little dog and he started running towards her and she started screaming! I tried to get her to stop screaming and was saying "he's just a puppy" but she wouldn't stop. He didn't do anything and just ran up to her and stayed there til I got to him but now I'm really leary. I think it was her screaming that got him all excited. Stupid people Evil or Very Mad