Not sure how much longer I can hang in there

josh

Hello-

I have a 3 month old female weimaraner named Izzy. I am no stranger to raising dogs, but this is my first weimaraner and she has been very challenging and I need some help.

Separation anxiety- I know this is a common trait with this breed. We have her in a crate while we are at work, and she sleeps in her crate at night. At bed time she will still howl a little, but it is short lived and she goes right to sleep. But when we leave for work she makes some of the worst noises I have heard a dog make. We do not make a fuss when we leave or return.

Energy level- Yes I knew they were a high energy breed when I signed off on the contract. Wink

I'm really starting to wonder if I just don't have the time to truly make this dog happy. An example of a typical weekday would be her waking at 5-6 AM, go outside to potty, have her breakfast, play while we are getting ready. We work 8 hours a day like most folks, but we live 20 miles from where we work, so she is usually in her kennel for 9 hours during the day. When we get home, the first thing we do is take her for a walk. Most nights we will go 3 miles with her and when we get home we feed her and she will spend the evening playing. But she still has an overabundance of energy. Is this just puppy energy or is she eventually going to mellow?

She doesn't play nice- constant biting. jumping up, jumping on our other dog. She bites us all the time, she bites our other dog (an 11 pound miniature dachshund). Izzy is about 23 pounds now. She understands basic commands (sit, stay, come) and she knows what no means, but the biting and jumping is a continual thing. This may just be her stubborn nature but if she does not stop I worry she will hurt our other dog when she gets bigger.

Potty training is going pretty well. She still has accidents in her kennel through the day, but when we are home she is accident free.

I really love Izzy, but some of the things that she is doing make me not want to have her in my home. I really want to find a solution for this so we are all happy. Can anyone help?

My apologies if this is not the correct forum for my post.

Welches · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:23 am Post subject:

This is all very typical weim behavior. She's not doing anything out of the norm. In fact, compared to my first weim, you'd think she was easy (he ate an entire sleeper sofa when he was 7 months old). Surprised

The key is to be consistent in your training and spend a lot of time with her. You have to always be thinking about training her, especially when she's this young. I hope you are willing to put the time and energy it takes into a weim because I'd hate to see her given up.

9 hours a day in a crate is a long time for a 3 month old. My 1 year old would even pee in her crate if she were in it for that long. Is there anyway you can have a pet-sitter come during the day for an afternoon potty break? Typical pet sitters charge about $10 a visit.

Do you leave the tv or a radio on while you're gone? This might help a little with the howling. But weims do not like to be alone so I'd look into a pet-sitter, at least until she gets a little older. Is your other dog allowed to roam the house while your weim is stuck in her cage? This might also be why she is howling. Our 2 boys were allowed to roam the house, but when we got Lexi, she had to be crated. If she was stuck in her cage in one room, but the boys were hanging out in another, she would howl like crazy. So we moved her crate into the bedroom and then keep all the dogs in there while we're gone. The boys aren't crated, but now they are in the same room as she is and she happily runs into her cage when we leave and doesn't make a sound.

And she might not mellow out. Weims are very high energy dogs, unlike any other breed. Our oldest weim didn't calm down until he was about 6 as far as energy goes. Now, after he was 3 we could leave him out of his crate, but only if he got his regular exercise. He could run for 10 miles and not even be the least but tired. One thing that really wears him out more than a walk is having to think, so taking him to work a bird field or training him in the backyard really makes him tired. Spend time with her in the yard making her do commands or playing hide and seek with her toys. This will also make her tired after her walk. But also be aware that she might just always be hyper. Give her kongs or other chew toys that will occupy her sometimes too.

How are you correcting her when she bites at you and your other dog? This is typical puppy behavior and she will continue to do it unless you are showing her not only that it's wrong, but also what she should be doing. With weims, you not only have to show them what's wrong (no biting) but also focus their energy on something positive (chewing on a toy instead). If you constantly tell her NO, she won't understand what she should be doing if you don't refocus her attention to positive things. And remember, REWARD her when she's good instead of always focusing on the bad. If all she hears is No all the time without corrective behavior, it will eventually have little to no meaning to her.

As for the other dog, I have always just let my dogs work it out. Having said that, I intervene if it turns aggressive. My youngest weim would nip and jump all over my older weim, but I let him tell her he didn't like it. He was big enough to let her know who was boss without either of them getting hurt. We also have a 9 pound yorkie and our youngest weim was very rough with him when we first got her. I, like you, was afraid she would hurt him as she got bigger. He would try to correct her himself but she just thought his growls and nips meant he wanted to play. This caused a few scuffles that I had to intervene. It took patience and consistency for her to learn to "Be Easy" with Spike and for her to learn that when he growls back, it means he's done playing. It took a few months and I constantly watched them when they were together, but they eventually worked it out.

For jumping, we found that a squirt bottle of water worked best. When they would jump on us or others, they'd get squirted, told No and then re-directed to a toy. Now, as soon as someone walks through the door or we get home, both weims grab the first toy they can find and keep it in their mouth while we greet them and no more jumping.

Be patient with your weim and be consistent. They are very smart and if left to their own devices can be ornery and on the verge of unruly. But with patience and consistent training, they are amazing, well behaved dogs. It also would be a good idea to get her into an obedience class for puppies. I hope this helps. Keep us posted!

peppernaei

Separation anxiety - Did you teach her alone time before you began the long days? Do you crate her for short periods while you are home (other than at night)? Does she have something to do while she is in the crate like safe toys and a treat-filled kong she only gets in the crate? Do you know if she settles down or does she do this all day?

Energy level-What is an overabundance of energy? Could you walk her in the morning before you go too? This might help with the SA as well. Is there anywhere you could take her off leash like a trail. This often tires them out better since they generally cover more area and are busy using their noses. I would also add short training sessions a few times a day. It's amazing how using their brain helps them settle down. You can also get "thinking" toys like how do I get the kibble out of here and feed her dinner that way. Just curious how long it takes to walk 3 miles?

She doesn't play nice-This is a dominance issue. I would search the forum for NILF and implement it. What is your response to her biting? I would give a loud yelp or ouch and walk away. If it continues I would again be verbal and remove myself from the situation for longer. At her age I would ignore her when she jumps up and turn away. Only reach down to pet her when she has settled down. Separation from the family is a form or punishment (but keep the crate a happy place!).

Potty training-Be careful of accidents in her crate as this can be a problem down the line if she learns that its ok to soil her space. She is still young to go more than 4 hours without a potty break. Can someone come and let her out or could you put her in a safe room (i.e. laundry room) with her crate on one side and a potty spot on the other until her bladder is ready for a long day?

I would also suggest a puppy class and a good one with help with many of these issues. Good luck with Izzy!

Phoenix1705 · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:33 am Post subject:

As you search on the forums you'll see a lot of great tips for all of these issues. You are lucky that your weim is still very young and you can start enforcing these good habits at such an early age that it shouldn't take as long to train as the bad habits aren't all that well formed yet.

SA-I know lots of exercise prior to kenneling if you can. Wear her out as much as you can. During the days when you are home, try putting her in her kennel for 5 minutes at a time and then letting her out praising her, little bit later repeat. Do you have toys and bones she can play with when she is in there?

Her energy level isn't going to get any less for at least the next year or so. Weims require a lot playtime and exercise. The walks are a good idea but sleeping all night and kennelled all day you are going to have one wound for sound little girl at night.

With the bitting and jumping, yelling a firm off and lowering her to the ground, turning your back to her and saying off or ignoring her completely might help. Once she stops jumping make sure to praise the heck out of her so she knows that when i am down on all fours mommy and daddy give me lovings. Jumping gets me nowhere. As for the biting, you can try yipping like a pup that is hurt or yelling ouch and pulling away. If she realizes she hurt you that should help. I use the squirt bottle with my 11 month old when she is biting her big brother as he doesn't always fight back. A squirt of water in the butt does wonders for her. For a while she got used to it so I added a little bit of lemon juice to the water and went towards the face with it. Lemon juice is harmless and if it gets in their eyes the tear ducts will clear it out pretty quickly but not before giving the dog a sting to think about.

Another thing you might want to look into is the NILIF theory. You can search NILIF on the board here and find tons of advice on it. google is another good way. I use that with both my dogs and it's been helping tremondously with their royalty issues.

Good luck and post some pics!

Wrench · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:06 am Post subject:

I would also get her more excersise before you leave for work...in the evenings you said she gets a lot of wlaking plus play time and then she sleeps well, try more in the morning as well. I do however suggest a daycare or a walker a few days a week with your work schedules the way they are.

What toys does she have during the day in her kennel? I would be sure she has the right things....during the day...but not at night ( Wrench gets a comfort toy but not really a play toy at night).

The biting and rough play....oh the poor foster pup we have right now...well, the little 10 pound or so guy can really hold his own except when Wrench plays "grab a leg and drag him around the house"! To be honest...your other dog needs to be able to teach the little one...he should put her in her place if it gets to be too much....do you seperate them or let them deal with it? Let him teach her now while she's still small enough before she's big enough to really do some damage. I do stop Wrench with the foster we have from time to time but mostly the little guy after a few days really learned how to handle himself.

Do you have a place in the house where you can baby gate her safetly ( for both her and your house) during rh day so she has more excersise?

Also, hopefully you aren't feeding her too soon after or before her wlaks....this can cause bloat....you should wait about an hour before and after feedings for walkings.

She also might need more stimulation for the brain...as in training. Really be consistant and work with her, this will make her work her brain a bit...less boredom. Try an obiedance class in the evenings or weekends.

How to act to her biting you, etc is posted all over this bored so do some searches or listen to other people for all that but know that at that age there will be a faze of it no matter what.....however it should still not be accepted and should still be handled properly and consistantly each time....this might seem like it doesn't seep into their brains now but really it does help for later.

Add this to about every other suggestion you find.....also search past posts, etc as I myself did...it won't take too long and put them all together...thats basically what you need to do!

shouseholder · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:24 am Post subject:

We are first time weim owners too and now have an 11 month old and were recently dealing with similar issues. Please know that with hard work, every day she gets better and recently she has been such a joy to be around. It took a lot of consistent training, but I can't believe how much better we are at handling her and how much better she is because of us.

First thing we did at that age was to start with a great trainer. It has made a huge difference and she is the type of trainer who will let us call with any small question.

Then I visit this site pretty much every day and learn, learn, learn. I have learned so much that no one but other weim owners could teach me.

Mischa also had what I though were pretty bad biting and jumping issues. It would get so out of control and I would end up very upset because I didn't know how to deescalate it. We have been working on it for months and it only happens now when she is very, very excited. The only thing that worked for us was to ignore her for five minutes when we get home to teach her that jumping/nipping doesn't get attention. No matter what she does, we go about our business and even set a timer. If she does jump, we take two steps forward as she jumps to claim our space. We don't kick or knee her, we just let her know we are in charge.

The biting stopped with a combo of NILF - there is more info on other posts about this - and a stern no every time and a distraction something else to do command, chew toy etc. If she continues, I walk away, if she gets very bad and runs around crazy-like nipping. I walk into the kitchen, slam the door and separate us just for a moment. It seems to work.

Good luck and keep at it!

josh · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:16 am Post subject:

Hello again and thank you all for your great replies. Please allow me to refine my original post with some additional information that I did not include because of my lack of coffee. Smile

Crate during the day-

I do acknowledge that 9 hours is too long for her at this point. I have been leaving work early just about every day to go home and let her out, play with her, etc, since we got her. I have slowly been increasing the time that she is by herself in the kennel. My wife and I carpool most days so when I have to go back in to get her I bring the dogs with as this seems to be an activity she (Izzy) enjoys and it helps wear her out. She does have a Kong and a Nylabone that I give her, though I'll admit I need to be more consistent and remember to do it daily.

I do not leave a radio or tv on during the day for her. Our other dog has a kennel that she stays in (occasionally she is left out, but rarely). Their kennels are in separate rooms. The way our house is set up I don't really have a room that I can keep her in during the day, too many things to destroy- besides that, I think she could get over any baby gate and I don't want her destroying our oak doors.

Exercise-

The 3 mile walk can take anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes depending. The nice thing about the loop that we walk is that there is lots for the dogs to see, horses, cows, a creek, and lots of other people walking their dogs. (Izzy is very happy to meet new people!)

This past weekend we took her down to Canal Park (we live in Duluth, MN). Canal Park is right at the tip of Lake Superior, and is where all the ships come into harbor. There are lots of paths to walk, and we spent about 5 hours down there this Saturday. She really enjoyed that, and once again was able to meet LOTS of people and other dogs. We plan to do this as much as possible because I saw a big improvement after this trip. When we got home she slept for an hour or so and was ready to go again! We followed it up the next day with another trip down there.

I appreciate the tip to work her mind more, after hearing you guys say it I can now see that that is what she really liked about Canal Park. So many new experiences!
Combating negative behavior-

Biting
She gets a firm NO, or OUCH and I present her with a tug of war rope, a ball, or any other toy in the vicinity. I can tell she knows she should not be doing this, and I think her stubborn nature inclines her to keep trying.

Jumping
With my labs, I would lift a knee in time to block the jump before they make contact and say "STAY DOWN", I am doing the same with Izzy. If she continues the jumping I will make her lay on the ground while once again saying "STAY DOWN". Once again I think her stubborn nature inclines her to keep trying.

Fighting

For the most part, I let the two of them go at it. Lola has the wisdom and coordination to evade Izzy, and she is much quicker than Izzy at this point too. If I see Izzy charging Lola, and I have the chance to intercept her I will, with a firm "NO". Lola will bite Izzy if she gets too rambunctious, but Izzy just thinks it is part of the game. Perhaps kenneling them in the same room will help them bond?

I am afraid to use a water bottle or spray bottle to discourage bad behavior as I do not want her to associate water as being bad. I would like to duck hunt with her, if the weather is warm enough and I want her to like the water. I have looked into obedience classes, though I have done well with all of my previous dogs on my own so I decided to go that route again. I am going to rethink this decision, though I will say that there is a Retriever Club here that I am going to join when she is older. The club owns a parcel of land that has both field and water. They have alot of members and everyone helps each other train their dogs to retrieve, they also have classes, special events, access to frozen birds. Virtually everything you'd need to train for retrieving.

I think I covered everything I wanted to, but I'll check back. Now it is time for pictures!

First day home (1 month ago)

Within the last week:

Action shot of Lola:

Phoenix1705 · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:22 am Post subject:

WOW what a cutie! Big bright eyes. I know a lot of people have the concern of the water bottle making the animal fearful of water. In some cases it can happen, however, if you are consistent with it and always use the same bottle no matter what, never switch it, never use the hose, or anything else, you should be ok. My two associate the bottle with the no, I don't even have to squirt it anymore I just show it to them. They still love playing the water outside though. Smile

LunaBrown · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:28 am Post subject:

She's beautiful!

Welcome from another Minnesotan - We're in the suburbs north of Minneapolis Very Happy

You have certainly come to the right place for advice and support (and people to gush over those adorable photos!) - there are alot of people here who have a wealth of knowledge on Weims!

I think you seem to have a good grasp on how to work things with her, just make sure she always knows who's boss and keep consistent... she'll get the hang of it. They're stubborn little buggers, Luna is just finally getting the hang of everything, and she had her first birthday last week!

peppernaei · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:31 am Post subject:

Thanks for the update and great pictures. Izzy's a cutie and it looks like Lola can really move. Very Happy

A few added suggestions...

You still didn't mention if you introduced the crate slowly. As Phoenix1705 mentioned you might want to reintroduce her to the crate to see if that helps the SA. Also make sure and crate her sometimes when you are home so she doesn't always link it to you leaving. The bedtime crating doesn't count since she is sleeping anyways. I would also become more consistent with the kong. I personally take it away when I come home so it is a crate only treat.

Regarding the biting, I personally wouldn't replace it with a toy. It's almost like you are rewarding the biting. Ignoring her will send a stronger message. I do believe in swapping inappropriate objects with toys since it is better to teach proper chewing but not for biting or mouthing. Same goes for the jumping. You have to remember that to dogs and especially a puppy attention is a reward. It sounds like she sure gets your attention by jumping.

If your interested in hunting her I would also check out your local NAVHDA group ours has been a great resource with our guy.

Have a great weekend!

DoubleTrouble · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:54 am Post subject:

Does she howl right when you leave? Like, right after you shut the door, lock it, walk to your car? My dogs used to bark whenever I was gone-- one of them has bad SA and the other would bark at him "shut up! shut up! shut up!" I spent about an hour one day standing outside, locking the door, unlocking my car, driving a bit, until I'd hear them barking and I'd rush inside and say "NO!" I kept doing that until the increments got longer and longer. It might not work, as I have hard of dogs barking over that, but it worked very well for us, as all of his barking was SA related and thinking there is a chance that I am outside and I disapprove helps. Also, keeping your other dog in the same room with her might help. I crate mine right next to each other and they seem to do better when the other dog is right there and visible.

Also, what do you put in the Kong? I tried a bunch of things before I found what will keep them at it until it is empty. For us it is a frozen yogurt, PB and kibble mixture. That can be a bit too calorie-loaded on a daily basis, so we just switched to putting half of their dog food in the kong the night before and putting a bit of yogurt over the top to seal it, putting in the freezer. They are motivated to do that before they are hungry (only a small meal before hand). Just make sure she has something to chew on or play with during hte day as 9hrs is a long time for anyone to be confined!

Does she genuinely not like her crate? Our boy used to HATE his crate, so we started feeding him in there, and it is in our bedroom, which is a safe place for him. This started to make it feel more like home and now he will actually go in there at night willingly and every so often during the day willingly.

Another thing you can do to help tire her out is training. Especially good I have found is exercise-type training activities. My dogs enjoy when we can find some agility-like equipmetn and they get to climb all over it in exchange for praise and treats. With Josie, we also do fetch, which keeps her focused on me and exercising.

If your dog likes to play with her sometimes and not other times, it helped us to teach our dogs that there are spots they are not allowed to play on-- we use the furniture as a safe space. Then, if one gets sick of playing, they jump up on the couch and the other has to leave them alone. Does your dog give any indication when she is being too rough? Both of my weims will stop if you say "OW!" or anything else indicating that it is inappropriate.

Banshee13 · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

Izzy is a darling, Josh. I especially love the photo of her in the basket!! I think Izzy is just out of control and rather than trying to work out all her issues--I think you should just give her to me!! Wink

just kidding! Folks have given you some great advice here. Good luck getting through puppyhood!!!

Peri

josh · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject:

versatilek9s · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject:

Great advice from everyone! We have a 12 week old girl, too, so I feel your pain! Remember with the biting that she needs to learn how to control her mouth around people, not just keep her mouth off them altogether. You want her to learn what an approriate bite strength is, so when you're playing tug and she catches some fingers, she'll immediately let go. I think someone else mentioned it, but correction and immediate reward for good behavior is the best way to train a weim.

Sounds like you're doing everything right, so keep it up. And consistency, consistency, consistency! Keep the obedience lessons short and sweet, hide her kibble, toss her food in the grass and tell her to "find it," etc. Yes, it's exhausting!

And she'll behave better when she's older, but whether she'll mellow as a 2 year old or a 7 year old is hard to tell. Frequent "time outs" in the crate with a good toy/treat may help her learn to relax. I think someone else said all this! Very Happy

Welches · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject:

Keep it up Josh!! It sounds like you're doing all the right things and have all the right intentions so keep reading this board and be consistent, consistent, consistent! Weims are amazing dogs!! With more training you'll be able to see how smart she is, especially if you want to hunt her. We hunt both of ours on birds and they are great bird dogs. And yes, they love the water (rivers, lakes, ponds, bayous) but hate the hose, shower and squirt bottle, so no worries there! Laughing

Like someone else said, I don't even have to squirt them anymore, just show the bottle. I'd also try moving both of the dogs crates together so they can keep each other company. This could make a huge difference in her being left alone all day and the howling.

Small world - I was in Canal Park last February and got trapped in the blizzard! They shut the bridge down so even locals who were eating at Grandma's had to end up staying at the hotel we were at because you couldn't go anywhere.