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OH10Bowhunter
Housebroken
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Clyde,Ohio
Fur Kids: Weimaraner,Gus |
 Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: First Birds |
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| I picked up my quail on Saturday. Yesterday I rigged some jesses for one of my hens and planted her in some weeds on the edge of our property. Brought Gus out on a checkcord and worked him into the wind on the otherside of the yard. As soon as he picked up the scent he made a beeline for the bird. I would say his pointing could use some work but I rehid the bird 3 more times and he found her everytime. I think with somemore work he'll be a great bird dog. |
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waitingonmyweim
Champion Weim
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 644
Location: London, Ontario
Fur Kids: Lincoln - Weimaraner-6mths
Nissan - Cat
Nemo - Cat |
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm excited to start this with Lincoln. Apparently he is the most promising pup from the litter...the most "birdy".
Here's a couple pics of him stalking his first "bird":
Good luck with your training! |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 489
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I would say his pointing could use some work but I rehid the bird 3 more times and he found her everytime. |
When your dog discovers he can't catch the bird he will resort to pointing. I wouldn't over do the planting on birds unless they are allowed to flush uninhibited by a tether. It won't take long for the dog to realize that the bird can't fly far and can make it very difficult to steady him on birds. Eventually, you will either have to sacrifice some quail, or go to pigeons. At the price of quail, I would go the pigeon route and use quail sparingly. |
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| h20fwlkillr wrote: |
It won't take long for the dog to realize that the bird can't fly far and can make it very difficult to steady him on birds. |
I can vouch for that! Danni was at a test and she caught every quail. 
It took some correction with feral pigeons and eventually quail (in bird launchers) but it was a frustration for a bit.
She was steady before the test so I'm sure that helped the "steadiness correction" LOL!
| h20fwlkillr wrote: | | Eventually, you will either have to sacrifice some quail, or go to pigeons. At the price of quail, I would go the pigeon route and use quail sparingly. |
H20, what are the price for quail out there? Here it's $4.00 a bird!  |
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OH10Bowhunter
Housebroken
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Clyde,Ohio
Fur Kids: Weimaraner,Gus |
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| H20, I hear what your saying. The quail are on a 30' tether, the bird flushed 2 x real hard and the last 2 were what I would call weak,but she did flush. I realise that I will be sacrificeing some birds,but I would rather use quail over pigeons for the time being. I was unsure on how this 7mo.pup would react to birds and figured if nothing else I could eat the quail if he didn't want anything to do with them. I may look into some pigeons later this summer. |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 489
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | H20, what are the price for quail out there? Here it's $4.00 a bird! |
It's getting harder and harder to find birds around here. The regs for for raising and selling are getting tighter. Most of the smaller operations are closing up. When you can find them, they range from $3-$6. I raise most of my own birds, so not effecting me much. Not nearly as much as feed prices. |
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Do you want to ship some quail out to me? LOL!  |
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anne
Wise Old Weim
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 2633
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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| OH10Bowhunter wrote: | | I would rather use quail over pigeons for the time being. |
Why? I think it's best to use pigeons, not only because they are cheaper (free) but because if you make a training error on pigeons at least you can go to game birds. Plus I believe that dogs trained on pigeons just get more stylish on game birds. JMHO |
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dhondt
Housebroken
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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| anne wrote: | | Why? I think it's best to use pigeons, not only because they are cheaper (free) but because if you make a training error on pigeons at least you can go to game birds. Plus I believe that dogs trained on pigeons just get more stylish on game birds. JMHO |
This is so true... My Vizsla has blinked pigeons and I honestly believe it was because I made a mistake earlier in her training. Luckily, she is solid when it comes to quail and enjoys hunting.
1st time bird dog? 2nd time bird dog? 3rd time bird dog? Mistakes happen, it's just a matter of when. Then hopefully your dog is forgiving and it doesn't set you too far back. In my case it probably set me back up to a year. |
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| anne wrote: | | Plus I believe that dogs trained on pigeons just get more stylish on game birds. JMHO |
Hmmm...looks like it's time for me to get some pigeons... |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 489
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The quail are on a 30' tether, the bird flushed 2 x real hard and the last 2 were what I would call weak,but she did flush. |
Flushing hard isn't the problem. Flushing and hitting the end of a 30' tether is. Birds that flush need one of 2 things to happen to them. Either fly at least a couple hundred feet before landing or get swatted down with a gun. IMO birds being that close are a training nightmare waiting to happen.
| Quote: | | I would rather use quail over pigeons for the time being |
The particular birds used doesn't matter as much as cost or availability. It can be quite difficult sometimes to transition to pigeons from gamebirds sometimes. Some dogs will totally ignore them. I train almost exclusively with pigeons until finishing out a dog. The ease of care, strong flushing and the ability to use over and over is the driving factors for me. Also as been pointed out already, when changing over to gamebirds from pigeons, the dogs are more stylish and intense when pointing.
| Quote: | | Do you want to ship some quail out to me? |
I'm running kinda low on quail right now. Got 50 eggs rdy hatch the 30th, so more birds on the way. Pheasants have been hatching good and another 150 rdy hatch 1st week of June. 100 mallards should be hatching in 2 weeks as well. Training business has been real busy this spring and I have ran thru a lot of birds. If I end up with some extras, I could make you a heck of a deal, but the shipping would break the bank. |
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OH10Bowhunter
Housebroken
Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Clyde,Ohio
Fur Kids: Weimaraner,Gus |
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| I hear what all of you are saying. This is my first bird dog,so I have no clue as to whats right or wrong. I have read post after post on here,Gundog Forum,ect. I will most likely have to send Gus off to be trained,in part cause I'm new to this and really don't have anyone else who I know that could help. The main reason I got the quail was that they were avalable. I would not think that the way I introduced the bird to him would be that detremental,since I had planed only to do that one time anyway...... |
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| OH10Bowhunter wrote: | | I will most likely have to send Gus off to be trained,in part cause I'm new to this and really don't have anyone else who I know that could help. The main reason I got the quail was that they were avalable. I would not think that the way I introduced the bird to him would be that detremental,since I had planed only to do that one time anyway...... |
OH10Bowhunter, have you researched into NAVHDA? If you really want to train your pup yourself, the members can teach you a great deal.
I didn't know how to introduce birds  so I went out to a training day and they helped me out. (-We used pigeons...)
Since then they've helped build a solid foundation. |
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| h20fwlkillr wrote: |
I'm running kinda low on quail right now. Got 50 eggs rdy hatch the 30th, so more birds on the way. Pheasants have been hatching good and another 150 rdy hatch 1st week of June. 100 mallards should be hatching in 2 weeks as well. Training business has been real busy this spring and I have ran thru a lot of birds. If I end up with some extras, I could make you a heck of a deal, but the shipping would break the bank. |
Wow...you've got quite the set-up. I want to raise pigeons and quail but the HOA won't allow any birds, esp. pigeons. I do have quail and Chukars in the backyard and so far they haven't said anything to me. The neighbor knows I'm training a bird dog and his father has a weim so I'm sure that's why he hasn't reported me.
I also purchase live fish on-line and the shipping is ridiculous! (It's more to ship the fish then the actual price of the fish!  ) Believe me...I'm used to high shipping costs! LMAO!
Actually since I'm just starting to break Danni I'll make a transition to pigeons. We sort of have unlimited supply so why not put them to good use?!
Both you and Anne mentioned that a dog is more stylish when trained on pigeons then transitioned over to game birds. (Hence, the switch to pigeons now) -Why is that? |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 489
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I hear what all of you are saying. This is my first bird dog,so I have no clue as to whats right or wrong. I have read post after post on here,Gundog Forum,ect. I will most likely have to send Gus off to be trained,in part cause I'm new to this and really don't have anyone else who I know that could help. The main reason I got the quail was that they were avalable. I would not think that the way I introduced the bird to him would be that detremental,since I had planed only to do that one time anyway...... |
I thought I'd seen you on GDF. You might talk to OHIOGSP. He will probably either be able to help you along, or give you the names of some good local trainers. There are several trainers on here and many more on GDF that would be more than willing to answer any ?'s you might have.
Training yourself isn't as hard as it may seem. I really like Delmar Smith's methods and those of Scott Miller's. Most of the training books/videos are very good of any of the training methods out there. Pick a method and stick with it until you are sure it won't work. Only then change methods. There is more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. What ever method you pick, it must not be an extreme pressure method. Most weims are too soft natured to handle it.
Using the quail a few times like you did, shouldn't be a problem. I was just wanting you to be aware of the possible problems that could arise from prolonged exposure like that.
I totally understand the availability problems getting birds sometimes. Last fall, I couldn't get any bobwhites. I had a couple of dogs that owner specifically asked for quail to be shot over them. The only thing I could get was couturnix quail, which do work well in launchers, but don't fly well enough to be planted. Ended up working out in the end. They also work well for bird intros for pups because of their small size.
| Quote: | | Both you and Anne mentioned that a dog is more stylish when trained on pigeons then transitioned over to game birds. (Hence, the switch to pigeons now) -Why is that? |
I believe it is for a couple of reasons First, gamebirds react differently than pigeons. They are much more nervous and tend to stay hidden much better than pigeons when planted. The other reason is they smell differently than pigeons. I think GB's put of a more intense scent, or at least one that smells better. You really see the improvement of style on a dog that has trained on a lot of pigeons, then moved on to GB's. One's that have only been on a few pigeons don't exhibit as much change. I can't even use pigeons on my female anymore. She won't blink them, but she just stands there. Put out any GB of your choice and she'll give you a show.
| Quote: | I also purchase live fish on-line and the shipping is ridiculous! (It's more to ship the fish then the actual price of the fish! ) Believe me...I'm used to high shipping costs! LMAO!
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The shipping box alone is $18 and about that much to ship. |
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