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blueticker17
Puppy
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 20
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 Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: Steady To WIng and Shot Why/why not |
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I am at a juncture in training my pup.
Do I train steady to wing and shot or just steady till wing?
I do not plan on running any trials with him, I just plan on hunting with him and my friends and thier dogs thier dogs are not steady to wing and shot. What advise do any of you guys have?
thanks |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 488
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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It is better from a safety standpoint to have a dog steady to shot. You don't want a dog jumping up in line of fire during flush.
In a perfect world, a dog should be steady to release. Too many times, all the birds don't flush at once and the running dog bumps them up. It also allows the dog to better "mark" falls. Not to mention it is the ultimate high when you are out hunting, your dog stands a covey, you go into flush beside your rock solid dog, birds come up and smack him in the face, you fire both barrels, 2 birds fall and all the while your dog hasn't moved a muscle and is waiting on the release command. Not only is it the result of great training, but it gives you bragging rights. |
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blueticker17
Puppy
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 20
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate the response and agree with your point but I would like to know if I train this beutiful teachnique what will happen when I hunt with those who have dogs that just hunt? WIll my dog break/fight/have fun? He obviously will have no retrieves if they do not honor.
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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He may honor a few sessions but if he does not receive any reward for that, (he'll lose interest w/ no chance to retrieve) he'll break.
If you want to teach him steadiness (which I highly recommend as H20 said) put a CC on the other dogs and take turns with the rewards/retrieves. |
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anne
Wise Old Weim
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 2632
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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I would not put a green broke dog in that situation, it's going to mess up your training. An older seasoned dog should be able to handle that pressure of working with dogs that aren't steady.
I agree that that it's far safer for you to train for complete steadiness, but in the end it's up to you how far you want to take your training. |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 488
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | I appreciate the response and agree with your point but I would like to know if I train this beutiful teachnique what will happen when I hunt with those who have dogs that just hunt? WIll my dog break/fight/have fun? He obviously will have no retrieves if they do not honor.
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IMO all dogs that are hunted should be steady to wing and shot, not only for the safety side, but it makes the hunt much more enjoyable. If you can get a dog steady to flush, steady to shot isn't that much more work. Steady to release can be a real pain, but is well worth it.
Dogs that "just hunt" are usually just hunting for themselves. They are not a dog that I would care to hunt behind. It should be a partnership. I would crate the other dogs and run yours by himself. Your buddies may complain a bit, but after hunting behind a well broke dog hunting for you, I would bet they will be begging you to bring your dog and leaving theirs at home. Or you could try the old "let's just hunt one dog at a time so we always have a fresh dog on the ground" routine.
For some dogs the retrieve means very little. Their reward is the actual "find". Most dogs however, will lose intrest or break if they don't get some retrieves. Multiple dogs hunting that aren't broke is a fight waiting to happen. At some point there will be a fight over a retrieve and it may not be very pretty.
| Quote: | | If you want to teach him steadiness (which I highly recommend as H20 said) put a CC on the other dogs and take turns with the rewards/retrieves. |
IMO, the other dogs shouldn't be allowed around a dog that is being trained. They are set in their ways, and bad habits are contagious, cc or not. They DO need to be CC'd , but on a one on one basis w/ a competent trainer to address some issues. As Anne said, a broke dog can handle it to a point, but a hunting a dog starting out with them is a training disaster waiting to happen. |
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| h20fwlkillr wrote: |
IMO, the other dogs shouldn't be allowed around a dog that is being trained. They are set in their ways, and bad habits are contagious, cc or not. They DO need to be CC'd , but on a one on one basis w/ a competent trainer to address some issues. As Anne said, a broke dog can handle it to a point, but a hunting a dog starting out with them is a training disaster waiting to happen. |
Good thing you're around H20...you keep me in line.  
He's right. I forgot that when we worked w/ steadiness, we worked with older dogs (whom honored) while the younger dog was on a CC.
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 488
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Good thing you're around H20...you keep me in line. |
I knew there had to be something I was good for. |
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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| h20fwlkillr wrote: |
I knew there had to be something I was good for. |
ROFLMAO! -That and just about everything when it comes to bird dog training! (And Anne too...) |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 488
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | That and just about everything when it comes to bird dog training! (And Anne too...) |
I can't speak for Anne, but I just know enough to get myself in trouble.  |
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PamK
Champion Weim
Joined: 22 Nov 2007
Posts: 848
Location: Texas
Fur Kids: Derek - Weim b-day 2/27/07
Ridley - weim/lab b-day 6/24/08
Gracie, Otis and Joey are the cats |
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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I can't speak for Anne, but I just know enough to get myself in trouble. |
As a real beginner I read everything you write. Just wanted to let you know that you are getting more than yourself in trouble. |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 488
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | As a real beginner I read everything you write. Just wanted to let you know that you are getting more than yourself in trouble. |
You are welcome.  |
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GailB
Wise Old Weim
Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 1843
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
Fur Kids: Shadow 10 yr.old Black female labrador retriever. Hunter 4 yr. old weim |
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| PamK wrote: | | Quote: |
I can't speak for Anne, but I just know enough to get myself in trouble. |
As a real beginner I read everything you write. Just wanted to let you know that you are getting more than yourself in trouble. |
LOL Pam...me too I read everything these guys and gals put out there...They are better than any book out there |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 488
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | ...They are better than any book out there |
Ah, it's just because we don't charge nuthin. |
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DanniGirl
Champion Weim
Joined: 01 Mar 2007
Posts: 837
Location: Flagstaff, AZ
Fur Kids: FM Blue Weim- "Danni" |
| Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Something else why it's so important to teach steady to shot...and you can share this with your friends too.
A friend of ours was hunting with a buddy whom owned a GSP. Right before the pheasant was shot, the dog immediately gave chase and *BOOM!* ...ran straight into a barbed wire-fence. The dog received 60+ stitches and the vet bill was costly.
Moral of the story...it would be wise to teach a dog steady to shot. |
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