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gailmetz
Housebroken
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 65
Fur Kids: sammy, orange boy kitty
maxwell, orange boy kitty
gracy mae, grey girl
thumby, 6 toed beast cat |
 Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: About breeding |
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OK, I first posted my inquiry a couple of months back regarding breeding my girl. With allthe great advice from all that responded, I only have a couple of things to say.
I have always intended to have her proove herself not only as a pretty dog, but a functioning hunting dog, which she is. She has earned a couple of points recently, and went to a couple of field trials, which she LOVES!!! She not only is a beautiful animal, but her temperment is wonderful. Everywhere she goes, she has fans. What more could you ask for, to promote the breed. I cannot tell you how many times people have remarked "how calm she was, compared to the hyper ones they knew of". Isn't that the point? To change peoples opinions about what we all already know..that this is a great breed!
Furthermore, Gracey will be screened for all the conditions mentioned before breeding, by the way to a champion I have had my eye on for some time. I have a mentor, who has been great, and have joined a local club.....I know this will not deter most of you, but everytime I see the postings of puppies on this site, I have to wonder... |
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Colleen74
Puppy
Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 49
Fur Kids: Gertrude and Ethel |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: About breeding |
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| gailmetz wrote: | | I have a mentor, who has been great, and have joined a local club.....I know this will not deter most of you, but everytime I see the postings of puppies on this site, I have to wonder... |
You're on the right track! If you're mentor/local club adhere to WCA standards and find nothing wrong with breeding your girl, then go for it! Every breeder starts somewhere.
When it comes to breeding questions, people can make snap judgements. I've seen it quite a bit. Hopefully you can take what positive feedback that was given and apply it. Best of luck to you!  |
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SparkyTansy
Young Weim
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Australia
Fur Kids: Ariane - Weimaraner 10 months
Spartan - English Setter 5.5y
James - English Setter 2y
Currently living with us:
Sorrell - Weimaraner 3y
Jenny - Greyhound 9y |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Firstly, I would like to comment on the OP's original question. It seems as though you are doing all the right research and you are planning on breeding responsibly. If you did not plan on showing or working your weim I would say think twice. I also think that even if you fully own your wei, you should always advise the breeder of your interest in breeding, so that they can pick the best breeding prospect for you, and know of your intentions. It is, after all, their prefix on the pedigree... and i would think most of them have worked hard to get a good reputation within the breed...
A comment on those who state that the breed standard is ruining the breeds. I agree with this on many levels, however, please keep in mind that these original standards were written and put into place back when dogs were shown for conformation AND working ability. Also keep in mind that Germany does not allow a show title without a working title, and so, it is just some countries where the "show" weim is taking over. I would also like to comment that many other countries follow the country of origin standard (in weim case, the FCI standard). It is the AKC alone who takes it upon themselves to rewrite the standard, and as a result, MANY good breeds have been ruined in "favour" of the flashier types. Others mentioned Gordon setters. ALL the setters standards have been re-written for the AKC to suit themselves... the differences in the standard written when the breed was still working (country of origin), and the AKC standard are amazing. However, you will find that many who still follow this original unchanged standard, are still frowned upon by those who work their dogs and breed for working ability. There is no win win in this case. I have found of all the breeds, Weims still remain more versatile and carry more working ability than many other "gundogs" who show today.
In Australia, it is VERY difficult to work a dog in the field. We have difficult seasons - very hot, many snakes... plus many species who are protected and we are unable to carry through on any aspect of what they were originally bred for. I bought my Weim to show, and work, and as a result, did my research to find a line who was proven in both. My girls mother is titled in retrieving, and her father has sired litters who's pups have gone on to work exclusively in the field. I plan to work her in tracking, obedience, and retrieving but she is currently in the show ring only... does this make it wrong, then, for me to want to breed with her under my breeders guidance, later down the track? I have had weims for 16 years, and all of them have been "rescues" of some description, however we do not have a lot of well bred weims in rescue in australia but it is higher than some breeds. It is the BYB's of X breeds and puppy farms, who are contributing to our dogs in shelters... |
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h20fwlkillr
Adult Weim
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
Posts: 458
Location: Holden, Mo.
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It is the AKC alone who takes it upon themselves to rewrite the standard, and as a result, MANY good breeds have been ruined in "favour" of the flashier types. Others mentioned Gordon setters. ALL the setters standards have been re-written for the AKC to suit themselves... the differences in the standard written when the breed was still working (country of origin), and the AKC standard are amazing. |
The AKC doesn't write nor change standards. The parent clubs are responsible for that. The AKC judges on the otherhand, do tend to judge outside the standard sometimes. There is way too much influence to alter standards. IMO the original standards should be put in place and adhered to closely by judges. I don't know about the rest of the country, but around here the shows and trials are tainted by favoritism and politics. It is for those reasons I no longer participate in AKC events.
| Quote: | | Gracey will be screened for all the conditions mentioned before breeding, by the way to a champion I have had my eye on for some time |
When you select a stud, titles are not as important as whether or not the dog compliments your bitch. He should be strong in the areas she shows weaknesses. A titled dog may or may not fit. [/code] |
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SparkyTansy
Young Weim
Joined: 07 May 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Australia
Fur Kids: Ariane - Weimaraner 10 months
Spartan - English Setter 5.5y
James - English Setter 2y
Currently living with us:
Sorrell - Weimaraner 3y
Jenny - Greyhound 9y |
| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| h20fwlkillr wrote: | | Quote: | | It is the AKC alone who takes it upon themselves to rewrite the standard, and as a result, MANY good breeds have been ruined in "favour" of the flashier types. Others mentioned Gordon setters. ALL the setters standards have been re-written for the AKC to suit themselves... the differences in the standard written when the breed was still working (country of origin), and the AKC standard are amazing. |
The AKC doesn't write nor change standards. The parent clubs are responsible for that. The AKC judges on the otherhand, do tend to judge outside the standard sometimes. There is way too much influence to alter standards. IMO the original standards should be put in place and adhered to closely by judges. I don't know about the rest of the country, but around here the shows and trials are tainted by favoritism and politics. It is for those reasons I no longer participate in AKC events. [/code] |
My apologies - I did know that  However... it is the AKC that allows them through and puts their name to them... is it not?
Australia is guilty also for judging outside the standard... we have many top winning US imports of various breeds that do a lot of winning despite being outside of our standard.
Unfortunately, we all have the same problem that there can be no measurements made and that every opinion is down to the judges interpretation of the breed... the lack of critiques and therefore justification only complicates this further... |
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youhavenoidea
Wise Old Weim
Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 1858
Location: Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
Fur Kids: Slade - Weimaraner
Thor - American Pit Bull Terrier |
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| DanniGirl wrote: | | Don't get me wrong youhavenoidea (lol...that sounds funny) |
What'dyousayaboutme?! 
| DanniGirl wrote: | | I believe proper conformation is a necessary for a weim to work well, but IMO I think the AKC has taken the show standard to the extreme. |
I HAVE been told that the US judges are favoring an overly tall, and finely-built ideal of asthetics over function - Canadian judges, from my understanding, still prefer the slightly shorter, stockier type, that is more compact and athletic. So, perhaps the skewed ideal hasn't quite made it North in such a pronounced way yet?
But yes, I definitely think we can agree that looks compromising function, is not something to strive for . . . nor are talented hunters who are conformationally incorrect.
And so continues the quest for a happy medium.  |
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anne
Wise Old Weim
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 2543
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: Re: About breeding |
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| gailmetz wrote: | | I have always intended to have her proove herself not only as a pretty dog, but a functioning hunting dog, which she is. She has earned a couple of points recently, and went to a couple of field trials, which she LOVES!!! |
Now you have me curious, what is the breeding on your girl? |
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anne
Wise Old Weim
Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 2543
Location: Los Angeles, California
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Couple of comments:
AKC vs FCI...
The AKC standard is a show-only standard whereas the FCI does have a description of performance:
Versatile, easily trained steady and passionate hunting dog. Persevering in systematic scarch, yet not too lively. Remarkable ability to pick up scent. Ready to seize game and other prey; also able to do man work, yet not aggressive. Reliable pointing dog and worker in water. Remarkable inclination to work after the shot.
Sooo... for those under FCI to be true to standard, the dog HAS to work in order to fulfill this description. AKC merely states that the dog needs to LOOK like it can work:
Above all, the dog's conformation must indicate the ability to work with great speed and endurance in the field.
The parent club writes the standard but AKC must approve it. There have been many instances where the WCA has submitted a standard only to have AKC reject it.
There have been instance where a parent club tried to put performance standards in their standard -- only to have it rejected.
Judges...
Standards are open to interpretation. And sure a lot of it is political too. That's why most people that show keep a list of judges they liked, thought were fair etc. I always did best under movement judges. |
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