help! he won't stop jumping on people!

ZaneTheBrain · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:21 am Post subject:

My dog USED to be out of control, but with obedience classes and doggy day care 1-2 days a week, there's been a complete turn around. Considering he's not even 8 months and is about to hit 70 lbs I'm so grateful for what they've taught me before he got older and bigger. Here's what made the difference:

-A gentle leader collar; I know some people say this didn't work and a prong collar did, but the opposite was true for me. The prong collar seemed to make him angry and stubborn and he pulled more, and I was afraid he'd get hurt. I got instant submission with the gentle leader.
-A clean, empty soda can with about 15 pennies it; I keep several up high around the house. If he jumps on me, or sniffs at the counter, etc I grab one and shake it, and say 'Hey', or 'No' in a firm voice, and he stops. It gets his attention and startles him. I found that it was so shocking I only had to shake it gently at first but now have to shake it a little harder to make more noise. You have to keep the cans out of his reach so he can't inspect them and people can't tease him with them or they'll lose their effect. It also worked for him dashing out the front door in front of me. He tries to run across the street to the little neighbor boys when they're out, and some day I want to get them outside and give them one to teach him not to do that, too.
-They use a squirt bottle at doggy day care when a dog is getting too agressive or focusing too intently on another dog. They squirt them in the rear or chest.
-Make him sit and stay when you get home or guests come over until he calms down so he doesn't jump or freak out.
-Don't let him off his leash outside where he can run away from you until he can be trusted-I agree with some of the others, he has to earn more rights. Don't be angry when he does this and you call him, or coming to you will be a negative thing.

I can't get him to quit eating or destoying my plants outside yet (bitter apple and the 3 other variations of it that I bought haven't made a difference), so if anyone has any ideas on that-let me know please!

DukesMom · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:34 am Post subject:

My little Gracie has taught Duke to chew up plants. I tied soda/beer cans on strings on the plants that will clank together if they touch the plants and so far it is working! NOW she is digging! GRRRRR,,,,,

shouseholder · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:41 am Post subject:

We were taught in obedience class to take two steps forward as they jump. The turning away and everything else we tried never worked, but instantly the two steps forward has completely stopped her from jumping. We don't knee her, we just assertively step forward and say no like we mean it.

nurse88 · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject:

I have gotten tired of it, too. I will try that 2 steps forward. Right now, I use a short leash and turn around. She seems to just jump on me, not Peg, so it seems that I am the litter mate and I am trying to stop this so I can walk her without problems. We also are going with the gentle leader, I am trying this so she quits pulling on our walks. We get many compliments on her, I just want her to earn them and the treats we give her.

hoochmamas · Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:03 am Post subject:

another thing to try to stop the jumping is to have the pup drag a light lead around all of the time indoors. when he goes to jump, stand on the lead, so he can't. sounds mean, but they can't jump.. and teaches them to keep their cute butt on the ground! besides doing the NILF training, we are big fans of the squirt bottle around here when a simple command isn't enough for the monster!

anne · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject:

OK here I go again...
Kneeing, squirt bottles, etc are all effective, but remmeber, you are using negatives. Honestly sometimes I feel like telling people to jsut put an ecollar on the dog and shock the __ out of the dog when they jump. Probably wouldn't go over well, and kneeing etc is the same learning concept (The techical term is "positive punishment") as using a shock collar.
It's effective, but not for all dogs.
And personally I don't like TEACHING a dog with negatives.
It's far better and you get a happier dog by teaching them WHAT you want them to DO. Reward what you want and the dog will do it. Punish what you dont' want also works but for a soft dog, it can ruin your relationship with them (I hate seeing dogs that cringe away from hands, you just know a dog like this was punished too severely -- for THAT dog, every dog is different).
Redirecting behavior is also good. I know some that have trained their dogs to go get their favorite toy and greet someone at the door with it.
Many people also teach SIT and the dog learns that sitting when someone comes in is what gets a lot of attention and maybe even a treat.

Now a dog that knows better, that will sometimes slip up due to being overexcited, I perosnally have no problem employing a negative. These types of dogs usually go "OH YEAH" and stop immeidately and do what was rewarded and then you need to praise the living daylights out of them. I have never had puppies or dogs that have been long-term jumpers with the way I train them, I certainly think this can be extinguished before a dog is full sized....

krisnkaipo · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject:

positive or negative for my current weim I gree with Anne.

Whether or not you can afford to take him to class you have to make time to train him. Take time every day to reinforce what you want him to understand. Leave his leash on him (prong or gentle leader, I use a prong), but just his flat collar in the house. I am a big fan of setting them up to succeed; therefore, it is not fair to have expectations that your dog knows what you want. YOU must teach them. If you don't make the time they will be dogs and do crazy doggy things that only make sense in their crazy doggy heads (or is that just my crazy dog).

If my boy knows what is expected of him, he generally does it (ok he forgets and needs reminders), but when i first adopted him he had no clue that jumping up on the counter and eating the entire gingerbread cake was a bad idea and his new mommy would not think it was cute! Similar teaching him to walk on a leash and not to jump up on people when he had no concept that what he was doing was not what I wanted. It was extremely frustrating at times, but he is quite brilliant (yes I am his mommy and I say so) and figure things out pretty quickly.

We have set-backs (he "tastes" ankles every few months) overall he is a good boy.

This site is a wonderful resource as is the internet and multiple dog training books. If you don't have the time or money for doggy school create your own.

Also to end a long winded e-mail: knee in the chest, while for me is my natural reaction can have very bad results. I have seen (worked as a vet asst for 10 years) a dog that had chest problems related to being kneed while jumping. Have heard of cases of broken bones, ribs, etc. So I would use extreme caution and would never recomend that technique.

anne · Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject:

hoochmamas · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:41 am Post subject:

[quote="anne"]OK here I go again...
Kneeing, squirt bottles, etc are all effective, but remmeber, you are using negatives. Honestly sometimes I feel like telling people to jsut put an ecollar on the dog and shock the __ out of the dog when they jump. Probably wouldn't go over well, and kneeing etc is the same learning concept (The techical term is "positive punishment") as using a shock collar.
Redirecting behavior is also good.

for the record, i personally will always try positive reinforcement first.. i know i certainly respond better that way.. and so does my son. i'd like to assume the same for my puppy.. but he is a puppy, so when he is on his 10th attempt in 5 minutes at getting on the couch, and redirecting/distracting, etc is not working, a squirt in the butt with the water bottle works for me to get him out of that "i'm a weim on a mission mode".. i am not comfortable with some other methods of training, i.e. pushing them to the ground by the scruff, yelling, or slamming their necks in the door if they try to run out.. but that's my personal preference. i also have a very calm obedient puppy, luckily.
we are all lucky to have each other as a sounding board, and a place to find that one thing we didn't try yet, to help us all have healthy happy dogs and peace of mind when we need it most. good luck, which ever training method you choose..

anne · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject:

Don't misunderstand... negatives have their place and are definitely effective. My point was that people need to remember that just because a person may think a squirt from a bottle is not as harsh as a shock collar or whatever, to an INDIVIDUAL dog it MIGHT be as bad or worse. To be fair, for most dogs, that is not the case, but for a dog that for some reason is terrified of water for example, a squirt bottle may be pretty severe punishment.

We all know our dogs and what they can tolerate and I am not opposed to using negatives (personally I just won't carry a squirt bottle around with me everywhere I go) but I think people need to realize that most learning concepts, which apply for humans too by the way, are grounded in science, and squirt bottles, coins in a can, shock collar blast, etc., are ALL positive punishments.

By the way, the only time I will use outright positive punishment is when there is something that I never want a dog to do. I will shock the __ out of a dog that livestock chases for example. I will close the door on the neck of a puppy to teach them not to door dash. I am willing to do these things because the negative association needs to be clear and strong the very first time they do something that I want to extinguish from the beginning and there will be no reason the dog will be expected to handle the situation in any other way.

Also a point that needs to be made is if one is using positive punishment, then USE positive punishment. Squirt bottles for MOST dogs are nagging corrections and are never as effective as a good strong correct, espeically a correction done effectively the very FIRST time of the occurence. To make a broad generalization, most women have a very hard time with this, and if a person is the type to have a hard time giving a good correction, then punishment based methods usually work poorly.

As hoochmamas mentions, think about how you learn and how you react to reinforcement (whether positive or negative), all the learning theory is the same with dogs or humans.

http://www.wagntrain.com/OC/

krisnkaipo · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject:

I use a squirter (actually a squirt gun) and my boy thinks it is the greatest game. I guess it serves the purpose, if he is barking and I pull out the squirt gun he comes flying over and waits to chase the water....he loves it when I shoot him in the face.

I say it allows me to get my agression/annoyance out and he just thinks we are having fun.....but hey he stops whayever it is I don't want him to do and I no longer feel like beating him. Twisted Evil

I tried it on my friends dog and seriously you would have thought I kicked her with the reaction of the water hitting her naughty doggy butt.

They are such individuals.

kboucher · Puppy Joined: 31 Jan 2008 Posts: 8 Fur Kids: Kyree

Kyree was older when I got her and she still jumps when I come home. I have tried turning my back, putting my leg up using the squirt gun. The squirt usually works, but I have to remember to have it in my hand when I let her in the house. What are the positive things I can do to stop it?

GailB · Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: