showing schroeder

RK · Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:27 am Post subject: showing schroeder

schroeder and i have about a month off before advanced obedience begins. except for the last class, he's been doing pretty well in class (although still definitely was the most anxious to play with everyone after he'd finished his commands).

i'm looking into conformation classes in the area now and i am sure will learn a bunch of things in class but does anyone have any pre-class advice? things i can/should look forward to? anything i need to get? any book recommendations? anything??

also, as a first-timer, is handling hard? what's it like? how is it in the ring? i would love to hear stories of your time in the ring!

Novel · Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

Well, I just started out in the ring for the first time this January, so I've got about 6 months in now. I have to say I love it. My first time in was also Topper's first time in, and he amazes me everyday with how well he does and how he practically reads my mind.

You'd think I'd have some words of wisdom for you, but my mind is fried. I think I'm coming down with the flu.

Mostly, I just wanted to let you know that I am out here, and will write a nice post, as soon as I'm up to it. Hopefully in the AM.

anne · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:58 am Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

Book recommendations, Raising a Champion, is awesome for a beginner. Very clear. And to top it off one of the authors is a Weim person.

Some people don't like showing but I really like it. It's pretty easy considering that you use food! Now I didn't start with a pup so it was probably a little easier for me because you know I didn't have to deal with the puppy wigglies, but judges are usualy pretty forgiving of that. Now when I try to stack up Pixy I realize how easy I had it with Riley starting at 2! We never got him as a show dog so it was a "what the heck" kind of thing.

There really is a lot of politics in shwoing, but a truly good dog will do well with an owner handling. Like Topper! And from pictures Schroeder looks very nice.

Also I would suggest if you are the nervous type to try showing in an IABCA show first. It's much more casual in that they are juding the dog not the handler and they give written critiques. IABCA is the organization that runs International dog shows, so they go by the FCI standard which is the standard that the Germans use. It so happened that when I showed Riley in one, the 2 judges were both also AKC judges (one was a Weim breeder!) so I think I got a lot of bang for my buck since they had an eye on him with both standards and the written crtique is great. If you are at an AKC dog show, if you can, go talk to the judge afterwards and ask what you could have done better as a handler to improve your dog, even if you don't agree, you will get some insight!

Be critical of your dog, understand what his faults are as well as his good qualities. A good handler knows his dogs faults and knowing it means you can hide it or at least not emphasize it! Watch a lot of handlers and their dogs, you can pick up a lot of tricks from them. Debbie is a very good handler, I would try to tap into her knowledge!!

Most of all have fun! For someone that sounds like they love to train and do things with her dog, showing will be a great bonding experience! Even though pros are very good and get paid what they do because of it, there is something about showing your OWN dog and seeing the dog be showy and "ask for a win" because he's having a great time out there with YOU. I've always done best with Riley when he's up and when I feel like we are in concert. That is a great feeling. Riley is not a stellar show dog, he's small and is more field type than show, but I know he has won many of his points because he was really showing. Have had a judge say after one recent show, after he nailed a free stack, well I guess I have to give it to him! That felt good.

anne · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:02 am Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

Julie,
Totally know what you mean about reading your mind!
Anne

Novel · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:41 am Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

Isn't it scary when they can read your mind. I always feel sorry for the professional handlers and big time owner-handlers that miss out on that great bond.

RK,
Here is what I wrote to a friend who was considering showing her Weim. It's been a few months, and there's some things I would like to add, but this is the best I can do right now. Yes, I know, regurgitate my own work, oh well.
Also, my favorite book that really helped me was The road to Westminster : how to select and train a purebred dog and prepare it for the show ring by Robert B Freeman.

When teaching Bailey to stand, start out just stacking her. If she knows whoa, or stay, use that. Just have her stand her normal self, tell her stay and then start moving her feet around, while she stays still. They don't always like having their feet moved underneath them.

Develop a pattern, and if you can, practice in front of a floor mirror, so you can see what the judge sees.

If you pick up her foot, and she tries to take it away, its kind of like a horse, hold on to that foot until you're ready to put it down. A trick you can do, when they don't want to put their foot down, is to pull them towards the foot, this transfers their weight on to it and they are forced to put it down. Very very useful. Don't let her snatch it away from you. It doesn't have to be put in the right place at first, just have her put it down where you place it. Depending on how she is, you may not get any further than picking up and placing feet in the first 5 sessions or so.

There are always alot of treats involved in showing and they are perfectly acceptable in the show ring. I trained Topper without them, but then he kept paying attention to the other handlers in the ring because they had them. Squeaky toys are also acceptable. Whatever makes your dog focus. You're pretty much bribing them to keep their attention, and this may mean new things in the ring all the time. Or, if you have a dog that already has a trained focus, like many dogs that are out in the field, you may never have a problem keeping her attention. You just want to make her look alert when she's standing. That means ears forward, tail up, focused. Many judges carry treats or make funny noises to see this _expression in the sporting dogs, some place more emphasis on this than others.

OK, but I'm getting ahead of myself. Stand and Stay is the basis of most ring work, the gait is the second, but should come naturally to the dog.
So, you have Bailey standing, and you can pick her feet up and place them where you want without her trying to leave, sit down or be squirelly in general. Now start placing them where you want, in regards to what makes her look the best. Get yourself some pictures of stacked Weims and look and see how they are standing. In front of your mirror, practice placing her feet and arranging her body to make her look like the pictures. And don't forget your pattern. I do outside front foot, inside front foot, outside back foot, inside back foot. Believe it or not they learn this pattern and Topper is ready to pick up each foot as I place my hand on it.
Always reach over your dog, don't reach under or between the legs. Also, grab the leg, not the paw. On the front feet, just above the paw, and in the back, you grab the hock. You have more control over the paw placement this way. At the beginning stages, pick up each foot, even if she has it in the right spot, you're just getting her used to it.
Once you have all 4 feet in place, you may notice that the rest of her body doesn't look straight. They often get themselves all out of whack when you place their feet. Her back may be roached, meaning humped, or swayed. She may also have her side out one way or the other. She may also be leaning forward, posting, or backwards. Don't ask me how they do it, but they can. The thing to remember is that most of the time they work against you. For example, if she is leaning forward, and you push her back, she will just lean forward more, so, to correct it, you pull her forward even more, and she will correct by pulling back. It's a similar principle to placing her feet by making her place weight over the foot.
OK, I think you should be able to get a good start from here. You probably want to do this with no collar on her, and just hold her under the jaw. They used to always hold under the jaw, but now people use their leads. If you have hold of her lower jaw, near the neck line, you have very good control of her entire body.
And, as you practice this, make her stand this way longer and longer, and give her distractions, people walking by, etc. You'll also want to examine her by placing your hands on her, looking at teeth, ears, chest, shoulders, back, thighs, etc. Judges push and pull, some harder than others, and if your dog stands through the examination, it is a big plus. You may also want other family members to examine her while you stand by, or strangers if you can find them.
You may also want to invest in a show lead and show chain. The lead will cost you about $4, but the chain can cost up to $20. Yup, that rinky-dink piece of metal. Silver looks the best, and a black or white lead. I buy mine from www.petedge.com. Dont buy one at a show unless you have to, they are always more expensive there!
Then, we need to get you to a show, so you can watch others, and that would be the best way to explain gaiting too. It would take me pages to write that, when its easier to see it.
www.akc.org/events/search/ is the search engine on the AKC site that lists all the shows.

anne · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

George Alstons books are also good, but maybe not so much for the beginner. I also like Patricia Trotters book.

Julies post reminded me. One thing you can start now is getting your dog used to being touched all over. He is going to have to get used to standing still while the judge looks in his mouth and touches him all over.

anne · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

Well I was trying to add pics again and am again having trouble. Sigh.

RK · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

yeah, i pretty much inspect schroeder throughout the day so he is used to be touched.

i had probs in the beginning uploading pictures. i find that if you downsize them in the program that you are using from your camera, that works best. you need to reduce the pixel size in the program so that the file size is below 64KB. i hope that helps.

anne · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

My file is less than 64KB which is why I don't understand why I'm having trouble.

Well hm, wouldn't you know it, it worked this time!

Novel · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

Great Pictures Anne. Are they yours?? I would love to use them on my site in my planned showing area. They really do a good job of showing the exam.

anne · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:21 pm Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

I'll email better pics to you privately. Yes they are mine and of course you can use them! Smile

Novel · Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: showing schroeder

Thanks for the pics Anne. I'll send you the link once I have the page up!