Feeding raw again after the illness?

2kids2weims

Wondering what advice people have about going back to raw after Cooper & Indy were so ill 2 weeks ago? They've had cooked beef, yogurt, cottage & some Orijens kibble since the vomiting-gastric pain illness. The vet said he thought it was salmonella from a contaminated food source, but pancreatitis was also a consideration... no proof. I'm not so sure they didn't eat something awful at the dog park or at home...also no proof.

So do I chance the raw chicken backs or necks ever again? Cooper is having some runny poop issues, which could be from this cooked food or the antibiotics killing his gut flora. The best he's ever looked/pooped/weighed was with the raw. What to do?

LucyLU · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject:

This seems like a tough call... I think this is one of those things that you just have to use your best judgement on. I don't feed raw... but I can't imagine that salmonella would be that common if you are as careful as it seems you were... Tough one!! Hopefully someone who feeds raw will have better advice.

2kids2weims · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject:

Cooper had 5 runny poops today ( mostly #4's if you read that post on rating poop) including a #5 accident indoors when I left for 2 hours. We've done the pumpkin & are giving probiotics.

I will try some cooked chicken in hopes that it will improve the situation. He's looking so skinny.

It is a tough call. My husband is livid & says the vet started with bloat, then intersusception , then blockage - all of which were wrong... then salmonella or possibly pancreatitis, "so why would I base my next move on his unproven suspicion"? Same guy also said injecting under the skin didn't work for keeping large dogs hydrated, but I've read about that several times on this forum.

Has anyone else heard of dogs getting salmonella poisoning from raw or any other source?

weimdawgs · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject:

In my raw feeding book, it says dogs do not get salmonella. I've had a problem with that theory since they got ill. I don't mean to say that they cannot get ill from something they have eaten...but they don't get salmonella poisoning like humans do.

I think your vet has no idea what caused it...too many guesses.

You are far more careful with your raw feeding than I am. And the only reason any of my guys ever throw up is if they don't fully chew the chicken bones.

I would go back to the raw. I don't think it had anything to do with their illness.

I just read the comment about injection under the skin not keeping large dogs hydrated...poop

That's how we kept Scout hydrated during a bout of vomiting. And it works.

Have you thought about a different vet? I am a little suspicious of this vet now. Sorry, I am just concerned for your dogs and you.

NenaGunther · Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:29 pm Post subject:

You mentioned pancreatitus...

Have the dogs had any vaccinations recently???

Have you had their glucose checked????

I've fed raw for the last 4 years, the only time I've had a problem is if my dogs don't chew their chicken necks well enough.

Are they new to the raw diet?
Sometimes dogs new to raw like our Gunther can only handle a couple necks at a feeding...

I would definitely get another opinion... a lot of vets out there are opposed to raw food.

2kids2weims · Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:27 am Post subject:

No offense taken re: changing vets . I'm glad to say we were already in the process to change vets. I'm happy with the new one & that vet also questions the raw = salmonella theory. I researched every where & way I could find & I found lots of info on dogs as carriers, but only 3 documented cases of dogs with salmonella infection after dental surgery with antibiotic prophylaxis.

I may have stumbled on to the real cause - they were getting some chicken jerky...the AVMA had a statement on chicken jerky in Sept. warning people about it for GI & renal issues. My dogs symptoms sound suspiciously like that. Being Cdn & not feeding processed dog food, I did not know or worry about these treats, & we did not start with the chicken jerky until a short time ago. I did notice this 2nd bag had a different colour & odour than the other, but not bad, more chickeny. It was not one of the recalled brands, but when I looked more closely at reports, there are hundreds on forums complaining about this brand.

So maybe I did poison them, but not with salmonella! With my own ignorance about the source of these treats!!! Sad

I'm going to check back in this forum tonight to see if anyone else had problems with chicken jerky. It is still on sale despite warnings & no labeling on the bag to warn.

anne · Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject:

There's a lot of ways a dog can pick up "bugs," yes from raw meat, but also other sources like the jerky you mention. I actually know of a dog that died of e-coli infection and that dog was fed kibble so who knows. My view of salmonella or e-coli is that it is around everywhere, I mean listen, our dogs lick their own butts, not exactly hygenic. I would expect a healthy dog to be able to tolerate most bugs unless they ate some really rancid stuff. Dogs are scavengers after all and are built to handle it. As for pancreatitis, an acute case is usually caused by eating human food loaded with fat. Most people do not feed RMBs that are loaded with fat.

2kids2weims · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject:

Thanks for commenting Anne!
Did not see this post until today. I saw alot of reports on salmonella in kibble, treats & human food on the recall lists too. The vet on this case stated repeatedly that the dogs did not have fevers, which would be the norm on any bacterial infection or salmonella poisoning. Lack of diarrhea also unusual. The antibiotics took care of that - Cooper was back to his old pre-raw diarrhea. I can't rule out that they got into something else that would cause pancreas trouble.

I should be clear that my objections to the vet were more about issues other than diagnosis: reading the file on allergies to grain, then feeding it/other foods fed (jerky)ignored, & wanting to test feces for salmonella gone after antibiotic when he did not have a positive test to begin with. ( It would only prove my credit limit was not yet reached!! Laughing

)

I decided to go back to RMB in a limited way and watch carefully. Cooper has had normal poops since the 2nd day of RMB. Both dogs are running around like it never happened, just a little bit skinnier with a poorer owner. Laughing

BEANSnBERRY · Posted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject:

Maybe you could keep them on a bland diet until their digestive tracks are a bit more up to speed. Sounds like if they still have the runs they may do better?

Just the boiled chicken and rice/potato (I usually boil some carrots and broccoli in with the chicken).. give them a week and then start weaning them back onto raw?

But if they are back to new I'd say go back to RAW... but that's a very personal decision.

Kiss the babies for me Very Happy

2kids2weims · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject:

An update: they are back to raw chicken backs. Energy is high & Cooper is having good poops. Both are gaining back their weight. I am using a little Orijen mixed with their usual yogurt, which is working well.