Sophie is hard to handle again Goto page Previous  1, 2          Weimaraner Addict Forum Index -> Obedience Author Message anne Wise Old Weim Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 2638 Location: Los Angeles, California Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject: Ellinorianne wrote: She said touch is like condoning the behavior. Weird. Touching is very rewarding for a dog. Use it to praise, don't use it when she's doing something you don't want her to. Get Jean Donaldson's book "Culture Clash" It will help you "think dog" and the training will get a lot easier. Back to top Ellinorianne Champion Weim Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 890 Fur Kids: Used to have Sophie - Weimaraner Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: The weird thing is, she gets a lot more excited when I get home than when Gary does. She sits and pouts at me in her crate and I take her out and she then walks all over us. She's jumping on the couches, she's grabbing everything in her mouth. It's craziness and I can't handle it when I get home from work. I know that sounds awful, but it's frustrating, especially when she's had an hour walk and been played with. And then when she starts biting me and fighting me, damn, I just can't deal. I know I'm awful, I wish I had more energy and part of it is being so tired at times I'm close to tears during different times of the day and I'm so frazzled, we just make each other crazier I think. Back to top anne Wise Old Weim Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 2638 Location: Los Angeles, California Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: It'd be very helpful to have someone observe the way you interact with her. I remember another gal that was having very similar problems, also from OC and a friend and I went to go meet her. The owner had never seen her dog be so responsive as she was to others. She also didn't realize the tone of voice she was using with her dog. We weren't there to criticize her, but it often takes someone watching from the outside in to see things that you can't. I can recount so many of these examples. That's why it's so great that you are going to training classes. It really makes a difference to have someone watching you as well as your dog. If you ever want to get together for some training, let me know. One of my pups is down there so I will have an excuse to go. Back to top GrantsGrace Housebroken Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Illinois Fur Kids: Grace, Weim Lola, Weim Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: I have found that a long walk instead of running around in the backyard or playing fetch can go a lot further with a dog. The dog must also walk on heel or behind you so that they will realize that you are the alpha. A long walk every day will not only drain their energy, but also re-establish your role as the pack leader with them. You can also purchase a doggie backpack to help drain more energy on your walks as well as make the dog feel as though it has a job and is working for you. After the walk the dog is much more likely to listen to your commands and calm down. If this doesn't help enough, I have also had a lot of success by flipping my dogs on their back and holding them down while sitting over (not on them, over them with the dog between your knees) with your hand on their wind pipe. You don't need to put very much pressure on their throat, the goal is not to choke, but rather to keep their head from moving. You hold the dog down until they are calm and submissive. This exercise also re-establishes your alpha role. This is very similar to the submissive position they take when submitting to dominance from another dog. Once again, the goal is to get them to be calm and submissive, and should never need to be done in a way that would hurt the dog, but must be quick and firm. Back to top anne Wise Old Weim Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 2638 Location: Los Angeles, California Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Sounds like you have read Cesar Milan Word of caution about alpha rolls. They are not for the meek or people who cannot commit to it. Different Weim, from a breeder in Riverside... trainability issues. I went over to help the owner do her nails. Dog would have none of it. I ended up rolling her, and she bit me. You need to be prepared for this type of thing if you don't know what you are doing. Just a general word of caution when alpha rolls come up in discussion..... Back to top wildlifecr13 Wise Old Weim Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 1544 Location: Ohio Fur Kids: Zoe & Riley Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: our most recent playing session including chewing on me, zoe, my feet, my knee, zoe, my cell phone, the laptop, the couch, a cushion, some snow, zoe, the christmas tree, the rug, zoe, a half dozen toys, the tag on a dog bed, the carpet, did I mention zoe? she is starting to realize that she is doing something she isnt supposed to - sorta does it with an eye on me now. she is asleep. in a half hour, we will do this again. the bigger she gets, the more insanity she creates.... until you get through to them. at 8 weeks, they are easy to handle. at 6 months, 9 months, 15 months... this can wear on you. i would take Anne up on her offer - someone new in the situation can often times provide insight that you wouldn't come up with in a million years on your own. it may help you establish yourself and give you the insight you need to keep her in check. give her a hug and a good scratch on the head for me! Back to top Ellinorianne Champion Weim Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 890 Fur Kids: Used to have Sophie - Weimaraner Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: anne wrote: It'd be very helpful to have someone observe the way you interact with her. I remember another gal that was having very similar problems, also from OC and a friend and I went to go meet her. The owner had never seen her dog be so responsive as she was to others. She also didn't realize the tone of voice she was using with her dog. We weren't there to criticize her, but it often takes someone watching from the outside in to see things that you can't. I can recount so many of these examples. That's why it's so great that you are going to training classes. It really makes a difference to have someone watching you as well as your dog. If you ever want to get together for some training, let me know. One of my pups is down there so I will have an excuse to go. I tend to use a lower tone of voice and to be clear with her. Hm. Sounds good though I will be more than happy to meet up. I will take any help offerred, we love her so. Back to top wildlifecr13 Wise Old Weim Joined: 26 Jul 2005 Posts: 1544 Location: Ohio Fur Kids: Zoe & Riley Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: anne wrote: Sounds like you have read Cesar Milan Word of caution about alpha rolls. They are not for the meek or people who cannot commit to it. Different Weim, from a breeder in Riverside... trainability issues. I went over to help the owner do her nails. Dog would have none of it. I ended up rolling her, and she bit me. You need to be prepared for this type of thing if you don't know what you are doing. Just a general word of caution when alpha rolls come up in discussion..... eek... yeah, scary thing if you arent willing to bite back. at that point it seems like if you dont win then and there, you have lost a battle that they will remember for a long time to come. Back to top Ellinorianne Champion Weim Joined: 23 Oct 2007 Posts: 890 Fur Kids: Used to have Sophie - Weimaraner Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject: GrantsGrace wrote: I have found that a long walk instead of running around in the backyard or playing fetch can go a lot further with a dog. The dog must also walk on heel or behind you so that they will realize that you are the alpha. A long walk every day will not only drain their energy, but also re-establish your role as the pack leader with them. You can also purchase a doggie backpack to help drain more energy on your walks as well as make the dog feel as though it has a job and is working for you. After the walk the dog is much more likely to listen to your commands and calm down. If this doesn't help enough, I have also had a lot of success by flipping my dogs on their back and holding them down while sitting over (not on them, over them with the dog between your knees) with your hand on their wind pipe. You don't need to put very much pressure on their throat, the goal is not to choke, but rather to keep their head from moving. You hold the dog down until they are calm and submissive. This exercise also re-establishes your alpha role. This is very similar to the submissive position they take when submitting to dominance from another dog. Once again, the goal is to get them to be calm and submissive, and should never need to be done in a way that would hurt the dog, but must be quick and firm. My husband walks her more than I do due to the fact that I work more. She is being walked, not just playing and we've used a prong collar to get her to walk beside us. I have used it too. I really need to do an evening walk with her, even if it's not long to get that dominance, she fights me more. I've also flipped her and she just goes nuts, she really fights me. It's like I have to do it when she's not paying attention so I don't have to struggle with her. Gary is the dominant, I think she's fighting me for number two, if that makes sense. So maybe that's why she so much more aggressive towards me. I am currently reading Cesar's book, but I'm just getting to actual training. I definately am not calm-assertive. Back to top GrantsGrace Housebroken Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Illinois Fur Kids: Grace, Weim Lola, Weim Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: anne wrote: Sounds like you have read Cesar Milan Word of caution about alpha rolls. They are not for the meek or people who cannot commit to it. Different Weim, from a breeder in Riverside... trainability issues. I went over to help the owner do her nails. Dog would have none of it. I ended up rolling her, and she bit me. You need to be prepared for this type of thing if you don't know what you are doing. Just a general word of caution when alpha rolls come up in discussion..... Yes Very good points, Anne...I guess I have been lucky and have never been bit by a weim while doing this, although I have probably only rolled about a dozen different ones. I guess those ones weren't biters. I have been bit by a miniature schnauzer (my mother's dog) while doing this. That was a really good bite and I have the scars to prove it! Back to top GrantsGrace Housebroken Joined: 04 Mar 2007 Posts: 57 Location: Illinois Fur Kids: Grace, Weim Lola, Weim Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Ellinorianne wrote: My husband walks her more than I do due to the fact that I work more. She is being walked, not just playing and we've used a prong collar to get her to walk beside us. I have used it too. I really need to do an evening walk with her, even if it's not long to get that dominance, she fights me more. I've also flipped her and she just goes nuts, she really fights me. It's like I have to do it when she's not paying attention so I don't have to struggle with her. Gary is the dominant, I think she's fighting me for number two, if that makes sense. So maybe that's why she so much more aggressive towards me. I am currently reading Cesar's book, but I'm just getting to actual training. I definately am not calm-assertive. Although some people would disagree, prong collars are a gift from God. When used properly they are a great way to get your dog to learn how to walk correctly. I think the Cesar book will help give you some good ideas and the reasons that they work. It's a good book, but I wish it went into some more training tips and less about some of his background. I enjoyed hearing about where he came from and his life story, but wanted more training tips to be included as well. I guess he's like a good magician or poker player...he's got to keep some things close to his chest. Back to top GailB Wise Old Weim Joined: 17 Sep 2007 Posts: 1848 Location: New Brunswick,Canada Fur Kids: Shadow 10 yr.old Black female labrador retriever. Hunter 4 yr. old weim Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:40 pm    Post subject: This is a great opportunity for you.Sophie should be happy to meet Anne.Good luck I hope things get more positive for you and Sophie. Back to top anne Wise Old Weim Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 2638 Location: Los Angeles, California Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 8:55 pm    Post subject: GrantsGrace wrote: I guess I have been lucky and have never been bit by a weim while doing this, although I have probably only rolled about a dozen different ones. I guess those ones weren't biters. I have been bit by a miniature schnauzer (my mother's dog) while doing this. That was a really good bite and I have the scars to prove it! I knew getting bitten was a possiblity knowing this dog. She is also food aggressive and won't give up her tennis balls well. I was lucky in that she had a very soft mouth, surprisingly. I still did a nail and then let her up after I did what I wanted to. She is actually a nice dog but has a hard temperament. Which is why the owner ended up putting her in "boot camp" for 3 months, so she could learn to train her dog. I've worked with several other Weims from the same breeder, with the same types of problems. Nothing wrong with the dogs, just these types of dogs should probably go to more experienced homes. 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