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Black Wednesday For Dog Owners
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anne
Wise Old Weim
Wise Old Weim


Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 2690
Location: Los Angeles, California
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Black Wednesday For Dog Owners Reply with quote

Black Wednesday For Dog Owners

Animal Rights Wins In Dallas, California, Pennsylvania

by JOHN YATES
American Sporting Dog Alliance
http://www.americansportingdogalliance.org
asda@csonline.net

Wednesday was a black day for dog owners all across America, as
animal rights extremists posted legislative victories in Dallas,
California and Pennsylvania.

Dog owner advocacy groups fought hard in all three contests and had
clear majority support, but animal rights groups such as People for
the Ethical Treatment of Animals and the Humane Society of the
United States cashed in political chips with elected officials.

PETA and HSUS have been infiltrating local and state advisory boards
for many years, backed by a war chest exceeding $150 million,
hundreds of paid employees and thousands of volunteers.

Apathy remains the greatest problem faced by dog ownership advocacy
groups.

Wednesday's votes also highlighted what is rapidly becoming a
partisan division on animal rights legislation. In general, almost
all Republicans voted against the legislation, and almost all
Democrats voted for the bills. The Democratic Party appears to be
lining up behind the animal rights agenda in support of its
presumptive presidential candidate, Barrack Obama. Obama has
expressed strong support for animal rights.

Here is a summary of the four issues decided this week:

· In Dallas, City Council voted 10-3 to pass an animal control
ordinance requiring mandatory pet sterilization, expensive permits
to own intact dogs and cats, mandatory microchipping and pet
ownership limits. The ordinance also bans tethering of dogs and
imposes strict requirements for keeping dogs outdoors. Home
inspections also are authorized.

· In California, the Senate Local Government Committee voted 3-
2 to approve AB1634, which now will be sent to the Senate
Appropriations Committee. If this committee approves, it will be
sent to the legislature for a vote. This bill allows any person to
act as a vigilante and report any dog owner for an unsubstantiated
violation of any animal law. If any animal control officer agrees,
the accused person will have a choice between paying a fine or
sterilizing the animal. People who are accused of anything have no
right to defend themselves or to appeal. An accusation is automatic
guilt.

· In Pennsylvania, the House Rules Committee voted Tuesday to
approve HB2532, which is a de facto ban on tail docking, dewclaw
removal and ear cropping. In the absence of proof that the procedure
was performed by a veterinarian, the mere possession of a dog that
has had one of those three procedures subjects an owner to a
criminal citation for animal cruelty. This bill would destroy many
rescue operations, dog shows, competitive events and field trials in
Pennsylvania and result in the deaths of thousands of dogs. This
bill now goes to the full House for a vote, and then to the Senate.

· Also in Pennsylvania, the House Agriculture Committee
approved amendments to the state dog and kennel law that fall short
of changes that were promised to dog owner advocacy groups. The
actual text of this legislation was not available at this writing,
and a follow-up report will be issued when the revised legislation
is available. This bill now goes to the full House for a vote, and
then to the Senate.

Please see below for more detailed descriptions of all four issues.

Dog ownership advocates clearly outnumbered animal rights
sympathizers in public hearings on all four pieces of legislation,
as well as in written comments, emails and phone calls received by
elected officials. However, many of those officials chose to ignore
our voices, and that is doubly true of the Democrats. We are not
saying this to be partisan, as many of our officers and members are
loyal Democrats. We simply are stating a fact. Democrats voted
against animal owners this week by a shocking margin, and we urge
dog owners who are registered with this party to work to reverse
this policy.

Advocates of dog owners' rights also were hurt by the apathy of many
people who support us, but who did little or nothing to voice that
support to elected officials.

Apathy by the large but silent majority of dog owners is a major
component of the animal rights strategy. While we outnumber them 100-
to-one, most of us don't get involved. In contrast, animal rights
groups rely on an almost religious fanaticism by their supporters to
gain a high percentage of participation.

The American Sporting Dog Alliance urges every dog owner in America
to join one or more of the several fine organizations that are
fighting for your rights. Each of these organizations has its own
niche, but all are excellent and deserve your support.

We welcome your membership and hope you will participate fully in
our programs. Please visit us online at
http://www.americansportingsdogalliance.org.

Please stand up and be counted now!

We also ask all dog owners who belong to field trial clubs,
sportsmen's organizations, show specialty clubs, breed clubs and
event clubs to urge those organizations to take an active political
role to defeat animal rights legislation.

The American Sporting Dog Alliance also is urging dog owners to
boycott all dog events in the City of Dallas for their own safety.
Under the terms of the ordinance, even a visitor to the city is
subject to citations, fines and dog confiscations. It is known that
PETA plans a protest at a July dog show in Dallas, and we expect
them to report show dog owners for alleged violations of the
ordinance. Because the Dallas animal commission is dominated by PETA
members, we expect that there will be a move to raid this dog show.
All professional handlers would be in violation of the possession
limit of six dogs, and none of the dogs are expected to have a
required Dallas breeding or intact permit.

If the Pennsylvania and California legislation becomes law, it will
not be safe for anyone to attend a field trial, dog show or
performance event in those states, or even to visit, pass through or
take a hunting trip there.

We urge all clubs to cancel or move planned events in Dallas now,
and also in Pennsylvania and California if their legislation is
signed into law. We believe that clubs have an ethical obligation to
protect the safety of participants and their dogs.

Continued apathy and non-involvement will doom dog ownership in
America, as well as hunting, field trials and other dog events. We
can't do it without you.

Here are the highlights of the four pieces of legislation that were
voted on this week.

California

We support the first part of AB1634, which calls for fines for dogs
that are allowed to roam and mandates sterilization after the third
offense.

However, the second part of the legislation violates basic
constitutional rights and human decency.

Here are the provisions of the second part of the legislation
(Italics are direct quotes, and words that are not italicized are
our comments):

· "The owner of a nonspayed or unneutered dog that is the
subject of a complaint may be cited and pay a civil penalty as
provided in this section. This civil penalty shall be in addition to
any fine, fee, or penalty imposed under any other provision of law
or local ordinance." In the first sentence, the committee
substituted "may" for "shall," which appears to leave the issuance
of a citation up to the discretion of an animal control officer.
However, the basis for this decision is not defined.

· "The owner of the dog shall pay the civil penalty to the
local animal control agency within 30 business days of the citation.
The local animal control agency shall waive the civil penalty if,
within 14 business days of the citation, the owner of the dog
presents written proof from a licensed veterinarian that the dog was
spayed or neutered." There is no provision for a dog owner to defend
him/herself in court or at a hearing, and no appeal is allowed. If
you are accused, you are guilty. Period. This is a violation of
constitutional guarantees of due process and equal protection under
the law.

· " 'Complaint' means an oral or written complaint to a local
animal control agency that alleges that the dog or the owner of the
dog has violated this division, any other provision of state law
that relates to dogs, or a local animal control
ordinance. `Complaint' also means the observation by an employee or
officer of a local animal control agency of behavior by a dog or the
owner of a dog that violates this division, any other provision of
state law that relates to dogs, or a local animal control
ordinance." An example of what this means is that a hunting or field
trial dog that is in excellent health and conditioned for
performance could result in a complaint of animal cruelty if anyone
believes the dog looks thin.

· " `Local animal control agency' means any city or county
animal control agency or other entity responsible for enforcing
animal-related laws or local animal control ordinances." This
includes Humane Societies and other animal welfare organizations
empowered to enforce animal cruelty or other dog laws. Many members
of these groups support a radical animal rights agenda.

The Senate Local Government Committee approved this legislation by a
party-line 3-2 vote Wednesday, with Democrats in the majority. It
now goes to the Senate Committee on Appropriations, and then to the
Senate floor for a final vote.

Please contact members of the Appropriations Committee immediately
to voice opposition to the second half of this bill, and also
individual senators.

This link gives contact information for committee members:
http://www.senate.ca.gov/ftp/sen/committee/STANDING/APPROP/_home1/PRO
FILE.HTM. The committee meets on Monday.

This link gives contact information for all senators:
http://www.senate.ca.gov/~newsen/senators/senators.htp. While Sen.
Michael Machado voted for this bill on Wednesday, he expressed many
concerns and might be convinced to change his vote.

Dallas

Here is a summary of the dog ordinance passed Wednesday by the
Dallas City Council by a 10-3 vote. The ordinance:

· Creates a permit for a dog or cat used for breeding or
competition. The cost of the permit is $70 annually for each animal,
plus the regular license fee of $30. There is no grace period or
exclusion provided for new residents or people who are visiting
Dallas, including participants in dog shows or other events.
Visitors can be cited, and we expect that they will be cited.
· Requires all other dogs or cats to be spayed or neutered.
· Limits a single household to a total of six cats and/or
dogs. People owning more than a half-acre of land would be allowed
eight. People who currently own a greater number of animals could
apply to the city to be allowed to keep their animals without
penalty, but they would not be allowed to buy a dog or breed a
litter of puppies until their number of dogs drops below the limit.
The ordinance applies to anyone who "harbors" more than six dogs,
which includes many visitors and participants in dog shows and other
events. Almost all professional handlers would be in this category,
as well as many owner/handlers.
· Subjects anyone who harbors a group of dogs that exceeds the
limits to unannounced inspections. This would include participants
in dog shows or other events.
· Mandates microchipping of all dogs and cats, including those
of visitors.
· Prohibits tethering of unsupervised dogs to trees or poles
except "for a period no longer than necessary for the owner to
complete a temporary task."
· Forces owners to provide at least 150 square feet of space
and a building or designed doghouse for a dog confined outdoors.
· And provides for confiscation of allegedly dangerous dogs,
and other penalties.

Please contact us at asda@csonline.net if you would like to
participate in legal action or boycotts related to the Dallas
ordinance.

Pennsylvania

Dog owners in Pennsylvania were beset by two pieces of bad
legislation this week.

HB 2525 regulates a million dog owners and owners of 2,700 licensed
kennels in the state. It passed the House Agriculture Committee by a
17-12 vote Wednesday. All but one Republican (Rep. K. Boback) voted
against the bill, and all Democrats (the majority party) voted in
favor of it.

It appears that the final bill reflects some of the promises made to
dog ownership advocacy groups during the past several months of
negotiations, but that the Democrats have reneged on other promises.

Some dog owners groups have withdrawn their opposition to this
legislation, but the American Sporting Dog Alliance continues to
oppose it in its present form. While we support changes that affect
commercial breeders, these represent only a small part of HB 2525.
The rest of the bill has serious impacts on all dog and kennel
owners. The text of several amendments has not been published thus
far We will issue a full report on this legislation in the next
couple of days.

The other legislation is HB 2532, which provides what amounts to be
a de facto partial or complete ban on tail docking, ear cropping and
dewclaw removal by anyone except a licensed veterinarian. Although
most other dog owners' organizations have not taken a clear public
stance on this bill, the American Sporting Dog Alliance
categorically opposes it.

HB 2532 passed the House Judiciary Committee by a 28-1 vote Tuesday,
with only Republican Rep. T. Creighton voting "no."

The bill allows owners to dock the tails of puppies until they pass
three days of age, and to remove dewclaws during the first five
days. However, the burden of proof is placed on a dog's owner to
prove that this work was done legally before the age limits, or by a
veterinarian. It would be difficult for most dog owners to prove
this, and a large majority would not be able to prove it. The simple
possession of a dog with a docked tail or a lack of dewclaws would
be considered evidence of an animal cruelty violation, if the owner
cannot prove his/her innocence.

The bill continues a total ban against ear cropping, except by a
veterinarian, and anyone who is found in possession of a dog with
cropped ears is automatically guilty of criminal animal cruelty in
the absence of proof.

For all of these procedures, HB 2532 struck out a provision that
would have exempted dogs if their owners filed an affidavit with a
county treasurer that the work was done before the bill is passed.

That means a large majority of owners of many of the most popular
breeds will have no way of proving that they have complied with the
law. These procedures were done legally in the past on many dogs, or
legally by breeders in other states. In many cases, a dog owner has
no idea who performed these procedures. Thus, they would be guilty
of criminal animal cruelty for noncompliance.

This legislation will destroy rescue work for many breeds if it is
signed into law. Most dogs that are assisted by rescue groups,
animal shelters and private individuals either come from unknown
sources, or do not come with medical records. There will be no
choice except to euthanize these dogs, since it will be impossible
to establish their legality.

This legislation also will have a severe impact on people who live
in other states. On one level, Pennsylvanians will no longer be able
to buy puppies from dozens of breeds from nonresident breeders who
perform these procedures legally in their home states.

On another level, Pennsylvania professional trainers and handlers
will not be able to accept many dogs from out-of-state customers,
because proof will not be available.

But a larger impact will be on thousands of people who own dogs and
come to Pennsylvania for a vacation, to hunt, or to compete in field
trials, dog shows and other events. Anyone who brings a dog with a
docked tail, missing dewclaws or cropped ears into Pennsylvania is
subject to arrest for criminal animal cruelty charges.

This will affect many very popular breeds of dogs, such as almost
all Continental breeds of pointing dogs, flushing dogs, terriers and
many working dogs, such as rottweilers and doberman pinchers.

The bill now moves to the full House for a vote. Please contact your
own legislator and as many others as possible to express opposition
to this legislation. Contact information can be found at:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/home/member_information/rep
resentatives_alpha.cfm.

Here is a link to the text of the legislation:
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/Legis/PN/Public/btCheck.cfm?
txtType=HTM&sessYr=2007&sessInd=0&billBody=H&billTyp=B&billNbr=2532&p
n=4030

The American Sporting Dog Alliance represents owners, hobby breeders
and professionals who work with breeds of dogs that are used for
hunting. We are a grassroots movement working to protect the rights
of dog owners, and to assure that the traditional relationships
between dogs and humans maintains its rightful place in American
society and life. Please visit us on the web at
http://www.americansportingdogalliance.org. Our email is
ASDA@csonline.net. Complete directions to join by mail or online are
found at the bottom left of each page.

The American Sporting Dog Alliance also needs your help so that we
can continue to work to protect the rights of dog owners. Your
membership, participation and support are truly essential to the
success of our mission. We are funded solely by the donations of our
members, and maintain strict independence.

PLEASE CROSS-POST AND FORWARD THIS REPORT TO YOUR FRIENDS
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wildlifecr13
Wise Old Weim
Wise Old Weim


Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 1572
Location: Ohio
Fur Kids: Zoe & Riley
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"In California, the Senate Local Government Committee voted 3-
2 to approve AB1634, which now will be sent to the Senate
Appropriations Committee. If this committee approves, it will be
sent to the legislature for a vote. This bill allows any person to
act as a vigilante and report any dog owner for an unsubstantiated
violation of any animal law. If any animal control officer agrees,
the accused person will have a choice between paying a fine or
sterilizing the animal. People who are accused of anything have no
right to defend themselves or to appeal. An accusation is automatic
guilt. "

I think the chance to defend yourself is constitutionally protected... so this one should have a problem when someone takes it to court.

Is it me (im new to this) or does a lot of this type of stuff start up (and get popular support) because of the negative impact that dog fighting and puppy mills have on the ethical breeders and dog owners out there? These laws seem to the uneducated eye to be aimed at those establishments, and catch a lot of the rest of us in the crossfire.
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ChuckDC
Young Weim
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Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 166
Location: Fresno,CA
Fur Kids: None currently, due to work schedule
Ch. Hot Licks\' Mad Max,CGC 11/30/90-6/27/2004
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildlifecr13 wrote:
"In California, the Senate Local Government Committee voted 3-
2 to approve AB1634, which now will be sent to the Senate
Appropriations Committee. If this committee approves, it will be
sent to the legislature for a vote. This bill allows any person to
act as a vigilante and report any dog owner for an unsubstantiated
violation of any animal law. If any animal control officer agrees,
the accused person will have a choice between paying a fine or
sterilizing the animal. People who are accused of anything have no
right to defend themselves or to appeal. An accusation is automatic
guilt. "

I think the chance to defend yourself is constitutionally protected... so this one should have a problem when someone takes it to court.

Is it me (im new to this) or does a lot of this type of stuff start up (and get popular support) because of the negative impact that dog fighting and puppy mills have on the ethical breeders and dog owners out there? These laws seem to the uneducated eye to be aimed at those establishments, and catch a lot of the rest of us in the crossfire.



The chance to protect yourself in court under the Constitution is severely limited when it comes to "administrative fines".. they wrote this bill specifically in that way to avoid having to provide due process. I've never seen such legal gymnastics as in this one, specifically on this point.
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sdwlucas
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Fur Kids: Sadie-5 Year old Blue Weim Adopted
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please read the PA legislation....not everything you read is as black and white as what was posted.......
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youhavenoidea
Wise Old Weim
Wise Old Weim


Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
Fur Kids: Slade - Weimaraner
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdwlucas wrote:
Please read the PA legislation....not everything you read is as black and white as what was posted.......


Meaning?
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sdwlucas
Puppy
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Fur Kids: Sadie-5 Year old Blue Weim Adopted
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just make sure you read it, you may agree with it. Just because one person disagrees and interprets the legislation one way doesn't mean that it is bad!
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youhavenoidea
Wise Old Weim
Wise Old Weim


Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
Fur Kids: Slade - Weimaraner
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdwlucas wrote:
Just make sure you read it, you may agree with it. Just because one person disagrees and interprets the legislation one way doesn't mean that it is bad!


Any legislation that encroaches upon the RIGHTS of pet owners is, simply put, the animal rights movement and the government gaining control. Yes, bad.

I (not that I live in the US, but you get the point) should be able to own a docked / cropped breed without having some animal control moron harassing me when I try to walk my dog. Period.

Please explain to me where "reading" the legislation (which I'm sure everyone here did perfectly fine the first time around, thanks) makes that kind of BS a "good" thing.
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sdwlucas
Puppy
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Fur Kids: Sadie-5 Year old Blue Weim Adopted
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off I take offense to the "animal control moron" comment, second off I see these things being done in kennels by untrained breeders who know very little about how to properly perform these procedures. There is more to the legislation to protect dogs than what is commented on, yes I do agree that some of the legislation is overboard but for the most part it is good for the dogs.

Yours truly,

"animal control moron"
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ICARUS
Champion Weim
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Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 566
Location: Grafton MA
Fur Kids: Icarus & Mindy - weims
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sdwlucas wrote:
First off I take offense to the "animal control moron" comment, second off I see these things being done in kennels by untrained breeders who know very little about how to properly perform these procedures. There is more to the legislation to protect dogs than what is commented on, yes I do agree that some of the legislation is overboard but for the most part it is good for the dogs.

Yours truly,

"animal control moron"


I agree that maybe animal breeding should be more "controlled" meaning the whole puppy mill thing and having untrained people just trying to make a buck off an innocent animal. HOWEVER, not every breeder out there is a moron. In fact most take their job very seriously and enjoy giving many people and families out there a fantastic companion. There are different breeds of dogs for different purposes, like hunting for instance. The tails and dew claws are done for a good reason. In fact I know someone who has a dog that didn't have the dew claws removed and one of them was ripped off while on a routine jog. I'm sure that was pleasant for the dog. We do these things to ensure more safety and less complication in the future. And is it really more terrible to dock and crop then to remove one's testicles or ovaries? What about all the dogs already in shelters? What about people that have had a family pet for the last 5 years that are already docked and cropped? Will you take their friend away? So now we just start killing all these dogs because nobody wants to go to jail for owning one. Give me a break!
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weimdawgs
Wise Old Weim
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Location: East Norriton, PA
Fur Kids: Scout, Silkie, Gunnar and Jake

all Weimaraners
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are they going to find the people to actually enforce all this legislation??? In most instances you can't even get animal control or anyone to respond if a poor dog is actually being abused or neglected. You mean to tell me that someone is acutally going go after the owner or breeder of a happy healthy dog just because they might have docked the dog's tail themselves or done it when the dog was 4 days old??? Come on people, get realisitic. Yes, most of it is ridiculous but think about what it would take to enforce these rules....sorry, I just don't see it. Not when there are animals out there that truly need help and can't get it. Look at puppy mills, in Pennsylvania you can't do a damn thing about them even with all the negative publicity being drummed up lately.

Maybe I'm wrong, and I don't want to see a lot of this legislation passed either, but I don't think it will matter one bit. It doesn't say you can't dock your dog's tail or remove the dew claws....it just puts qualifications on the proceedure, qualifications that, in most cases, will be impossible to prove or disprove, by either party.
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youhavenoidea
Wise Old Weim
Wise Old Weim


Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Simcoe, Ontario, Canada
Fur Kids: Slade - Weimaraner
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

weimdawgs wrote:
Where are they going to find the people to actually enforce all this legislation??? In most instances you can't even get animal control or anyone to respond if a poor dog is actually being abused or neglected.


They'll just redirect their resources to these new bullsh*t laws, to make headlines and placate the PETA extremists whose back pockets they're in, instead of focusing on the laws we ALREADY have, that aren't properly enforced. My neighbor's dog lives up to its a** in crap (not really - hypothetical), and calls have been made to AC repeatedly to no avail, but by all means, focus on ME, the responsible owner with the dog from a responsible breeder, because there's a lack of dewclaws in my house.

Effing ridiculous.
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sdwlucas
Puppy
Puppy


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 19

Fur Kids: Sadie-5 Year old Blue Weim Adopted
Austin-3 Year old (?) Weim adopted
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, PA's laws as they are now do not let me enforce the cruelty statute.....I enforce title 3 "dog law" cruelty falls under PA's title 18 section 5511 "cruelty to animals". As the law is right now if you call me concerning such problem I can only refer you to the SPCA or Humane Society. I will however in that situation check license and rabies vaccinations.....I have been through Humane Officer Training and can make a sound judgement as to whether it is cruelty or not and how severe. As for enforcing the cruelty statute I cannot, by law do that.

There are very good points made and yes as I said before I don't agree with all the legislation. I do agree with the part that states we as dog wardens may enforce cruelty on dogs....and dogs only.
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sdwlucas
Puppy
Puppy


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 19

Fur Kids: Sadie-5 Year old Blue Weim Adopted
Austin-3 Year old (?) Weim adopted
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The legisation has passed and has been signed by Governor Rendell.
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sdwlucas
Puppy
Puppy


Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 19

Fur Kids: Sadie-5 Year old Blue Weim Adopted
Austin-3 Year old (?) Weim adopted
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The legislation has since passed and will make the breeding dogs in PA much happier! I was asked a question at a kennel a few weeks ago......."dogs don't have a soul, if they do how do you know?" My reply was my "kids" would never live a day here.......they sleep in bed with me, they are part of my life, I see dogs of every breed every day and see how they react to people and their reactions.....I wish I had a better answer...........ANYONE care to join in?
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bgoode11
Housebroken
Housebroken


Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 97
Location: Rome, Ga
Fur Kids: Bailey Rae
PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not in any way agreeing with the tail docking, ear cropping thing. However we had to know this was coming. It is illegal in many other countries and we have some members on here with "natural" weims because they live in those parts of the world.

As far as the license to own an intact dog. I think its a great idea. There are WAY too many people who are NOT responsible dog owners. This could possibly deter them from even getting a dog. And if its the money that the breeders are worried about they should just pass the cost on to the puppy buyers.

I agree with most people here in the fact that the peta people are a couple of fries short of a happy meal.

I think everyone who wants to have a dog should have to apply for a permit. When you see hundreds and thousands of dogs without homes it means that something needs to be done.
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