etc... I know its probably a heated conversation but just wonder if there are any options we have to push for that might make a dent in the number of animals available for sale, dumped, etc.... Just frustrating to always see so many needing help and not knowing how best to help. I truly feel like a coward because Ive always wanted to open a large animal sanctuary just haven't done it.

Do we need to make it harder to sell puppies? Should only dogs that are either true working dogs, show dogs, title dogs be allowed to breed? (Not that we have money for enforecement but..) Should we tax sale of puppies? Make it so prohibitively expensive until we can make a dent in backlog of dogs wanting homes? Should people receive tax credits for the care of animals (no not same level as children/dependents but...). I personally dont think pet shops should be allowed to sell cats, dogs, any of the traditional american pets... --or-- only sell truly bred dogs (see above). I want to ban Kill Shelters, somehow find more funding for animals (yes believe need more funding for schools there truly isn't enough money to go around atm.

I dont know just frustrating.

Frustrating is not even the word for it!

Honestly, in this country, the power is with the consumer. The puppy buyer. The ONLY way this will ever change is if people start buying puppies the right way: from rescues and reputable breeders who are breeding for the right reasons. The right reasons? To better the breed for performance, health, conformation, temperament, the entire package. There is NO SUCH THING as breeding a weimaraner to be a better family dog when that breeding stock is not rigorously tested in some venue. Their home, with their children is not appropriate testing criteria. There is NO SUCH THING as having a vet deem breeding stockhealthy if there is do documentation to back it up. If there are red flags, walk away. It will take time, but it will work. No cash flow? They go to another breed, or get out of the business.

There are no perfect dogs. But there are breeders trying to make their dogs and their stock better, and striving to educate themselves about their breed, and making sure that their ideas on "better" are always evolving.

As long as these people continue to make money off of breeding their family pets, it will continue. I'm not saying breeding a family pet once is a bad thing. These are not bad people. But if one person on everyone's street does it with no regard to where the puppies end up and no regard to their health? This is a problem. It's on a huge scale, probably worse than puppy mills in many breeds.

Buy from a breeder who doesn't care about your money, knows about their breed, and will support their puppies for their lifetime. Support a rescue if you don't need a puppy--and most people don't (they grow out of "cute" awfully fast).

Just IMHO.

This is a topic that I've thought about too, and one that I know there are no easy answers to. Maybe some kind of license to breed? Or limit on the amount of unspayed/unneutered pets on a property? Though I think either of these things would place an undue hardship on legitimate, reputable breeders, and puppy mills would continue to operate as usual. Maybe place a tax per puppy on the breeder after a certain number of puppies/litters? Make animal cruelty penalties stiffer? A tax break for those pet owners who spay/neuter and give rabies vaccines to their pets?

I think it's a really grey area between those who breed for a profit and those who breed to further a breed. You don't want to punish the good ones, but you want to stop the bad ones.

I could think of a few things to do to puppy mill operators, but none of those things are legal.....

ziggie wrote:

ziggie wrote:

That's why I think educating the consumer is the way to go. The problem is, when you deal with a life--a cute, adorable, genius little life--people have trouble. They can't walk away. They can't villainize their neighbor, their co-worker, their friend. And they shouldn't. They SHOULD buy a puppy like they would buy a car:
**with a warranty (guarantee)
**with a relationship with a reputable dealer with whom they've developed a relationship (or know someone who has)
**they should read reviews (or go to shows/trials/matches)
**after a test drive (meet the parents/grandparents/cousins and hunt over them or whatever)
**at a cost that is realistic (you notice that reputable breeders have a price point at $900-$1200 and no-so-reputable ones are much less? EASY to separate the two! Just like you know if you see a car for super cheap that you *might* be getting into trouble?! Duh!)
**with a care package/mechanical warranty (i.e. a good breeder can tell you "how this stuff works" and be an awesome mentor for the life of your dog, whether you want to show/trial/etc or just want a pet. Imagine making a phonecall for any issues you might have rather than going to a random forum?! )
**etc

See where I'm going here?

I agree that the power lies with the consumer. But unfortunately, the consumer doesn't care. Or 95% of consumers don't care. I'd like to take this a step further and have the parent clubs more involved. I'd love it if there was a set of standards that a dog had to meet in order to receive some kind of breeding certificate from the parent club. That wouldn't stop BYB's from breeding, but it would be easier for the consumer to spot a legitimate breeder who was only breeding for the betterment of the breed. No certificate, not a legitimate breeder. For Weims, I feel like this would make a lot of sense. They'd have to meet criteria in the fields of hunting, conformation, temperament and health. And if they met all those criteria, then they could get a certification from the parent club for breeding. It shouldn't be any extra work for legitimate breeders to do this because they should already be testing for all of these things anyway.

I cant help but add this...in my line of work I have the same question towards some people that breed children. Some adults just shouldnt but you cant do anything about it. :shock:

but on a more serious note regarding dogs. It doesn't help that people feel as though they are expendable. TOO many feel that they can give them up when things get to rough or when they are bored of them. If more people kept their dogs throughout their lifespan that would lightened up the load in shelters and rescues.

JanelleAmberCharlie wrote:


A friend of mine has some ideas on that. Her last job was investigating child abuse/neglect complaints and then actually removing the children from their homes if need be. I think she saw a lot of the worst part of humanity. It's hard not to wonder why some people are allowed to procreate.

Here is a website with some good info on how to fight puppy mills:

http://www.caps-web.org/

versatilek9s wrote:


I agree with what you said... but I think a lot of people are too lazy.. they want a puppy and they want it now. I don't agree with it.. but to be honest thats how too many people think. I work with the Owensboro Humane Society in KY and I see it all the time, or hear it.. they want the money... so they breed there dog... or can't wait for us to find them one in rescue.... they have to have a puppy now

Our policy for adopting is, we cannot adopt to anyone who has a animal that is not spayed/neutered (unless you have proof of show papers etc). For example we have cute little mix puppies in now.. and a gentleman and his wife (more or less the wife) wanted one. I forget what kind of dog they had but they started filling out the paper work and I was talking to them and asked about thier dog... and he wasn't neutered. I explained to him that we can't adopt unless they will agree to neuter him, as we work very hard to keep the pet population down, and he said no he is 8 years old, and he would be a good stud dog, he is a good looking dog.... (as they have a bag of the WORST dog food ever in their cart) .... really?? Either way... people like him make me want to punch them in the face! Needless to say I said sorry, I cannot adopt to you. They weren't happy.. but whatever...

I too wish there were better laws etc.. I got Bayliss from a backyard breeder... I always considered myself an animal person, but not until I found this board, and I started working with the Owensboro Humane Society did I realize how many truly need help, homes, and how many poor breeders there are out there. I feel a lot of people are not educated, and I feel like once you cross the line into animal rescue.. it's almost as if you see a WHOLE NEW WORLD. I never realized how bad things really were until I worked with OHS. I feel that a lot of people's minds would change if everyone had to work 1 day at an animal shelter.. ::sigh::

Someday my goal is to have my own weim rescue (and 50+ acres) because of my WONDERFUL rescue Dottie... Between loving Bayliss so much (even with her 100 health issues) and Dottie, and how amazing she is.. and then all the poor dogs I see day in and day out... I have found what I really want to do in life. I have always considered myself an animal person. I will donate anytime I'm asked a few dollars here and there.. and yes I of course had my animals spayed.. but if you asked me 5 years ago if someday I'd be in animal rescue and LOVE it.. and dream of having my own rescue... I never in a million years would have thought so..

I'm starting to ramble.. but I hope some of you get my drift.
See where I'm going here?

Great posts Meredith! It is depressing to think though, that so many people still don't bother to do any research and support people who care nothing about the health and well being of the dogs/breed and only about making money

JanelleAmberCharlie wrote:


I AGREE!!! I spent some time last year in a home for battered women (not for myself, helping out some kids) and it is schocking to see how many of these young women have so many kids (usually by different fathers). And the kids are all paying the price! Sorry, didn't want to hijack this thread...but I had to put my nickle in.

I think about this sooo often. The educating. It is a much longer process and does require
patience, but it is a start.



I'm on another forum, not dog related at all, but we maintain the top google hit on a subject so that we
are heard first above all other information. (environmental Union issues in NYC)

If we google in caps 'weimaraner puppies' (!!!), what do we get? pages and pages of puppies for sale and
'all about the breed'...good family pet. A total disregard for the 'but' and the 'if'. If given the proper training
and exercise. But they will become difficult if...

How do we maintain a top hit that includes information for even the educated searcher? That provides
a good link resource to the 'investigate before you invest' post'? It has to be the TOP hit. How do we do that?
I'll ask a 5th grader...but really, do we need to set up the proper wording? and tap it every time we log on?
(google 'weimabanana' )

Just one example link, PET DOGS FROM WORKING LINES
http://www.4pawsu.com/workingdogs.html

So much good information exists but does it ever need a filter!

anywho, just a thought

The problem I see a lot is no one is willing to listen when it comes to getting a puppy. If anyone mentions a dog I try to explain petfinder and offer to help them find a rescue for whatever they are interested in, but they are so thick-headed, they somehow believe that buying a puppy on the internet is not the same a buying from a puppy mill. Where do they think these dogs are coming from? Why would you ever mail-order a dog?
Or my hairdresser had to give a dog away last year because there was no room/time, but last week the husband brought home a new puppy. It's so selfish and short-sighted.

I have wondered if maybe making spay and neuter surgeries free would help. I know that's not a very realistic solution, but for a lot of people, they don't have the money to get their pets fixed.
When it come down to it, it's a lot about money. Why would I buy a $3000 dog when I can get a $300 dog? Why would I pay $200 for a rescue when I can get a puppy for $300 that doesn't have issues? My dog's purebred, why don't I have a litter of puppies and make some money?

I hope that more people are realizing how wonderful rescue dogs are. Until people are ready to recognize how far-spread and harmful puppy mills are, they are going to keep trying to make money.

Well at my work yesterday we received a petition from a group and there is a proposed bill in for the city of Calgary to ban the sale of dogs and cats in pet stores. I got about 45 people to sign for it yesterday during my shift . The petition needs 60,000 signatures. I really hope the bill gets passed but I am pleased to see that someone here is serious about getting this done.