Please: Is this the beginning of aggression?

Tammy

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, about my first Weim, Dakar (5 mos.). I've spent three hours poring through the Obedience posts (notepaper at hand); thank you for the tips I will be trying. I agree 100%, sustained exercise is an essential part of a Weim day...

Thanks for the laughs too, I needed them, as tonight was also my first encounter (ha ha) with Counter Surfing.

Fact is, between training this dog, training my kids, training my kids to be around the dog more correctly, then training my husband on what I am training the dog so we're consistent (not to mention training visitors), taking him to obedience class (for more training) then trawling the internet and reading books...about training Weims...I am pretty drained and fed up. He nearly continuously (it seems) misbehaves in all kinds of Weim ways, which I try my best to manage (though it seems beyond my patience level).

Here's the thing:

1. He jumps. A Lot. Yes he IS a Weim pup. But ignoring leads to him landing on our backs (literally--also does this to kids, I can't stand being pounced on like that). And he nips, and pulls at clothes. Nipping is regularly a problem. Now he also snaps (in the air but in the person's direction), there's this dry jaw sound, with his nose in the air. He does it in a lot of situations. Is this the beginning of aggression? How do I address this latest development?

2. A Long time ago (way before Dakar came), we booked a 7 day plane trip that we cannot cancel. We have three options for Dakar: a 40-dog kennel (where he'd be lodged with a young Brittany spaniel belonging to the owner/breeder, since he is so young and this is his first separation), a (unknown to us) agency dogsitter at our place, or same dogsitter at their place. Our neighbor friend volunteered, as well, but I think it might be the end of the friendship! She doesn't have a fenced yard, for starters. My instinct says the kennel is not the solution, but I read a posting about how exposing them to this difference experience while young can be helpful for later. Please, what seems like the right thing to do?

Desperately looking for relief,
Tammy

singsmom · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:14 pm Post subject:

When my Gunny was about 5-6 months old we went to Florida and they didn't allow dogs in the condo my folks had booked. I found a doggie daycare that kept some of them overnight in little rooms (not cages) usually with a similar friend. I hated to leave him at all and they sent me pictures of him having fun during the day outside, but he was really shy when I picked him up 4 days later. He warmed up again quickly. After that if I needed to leave him he went to a dog trainer that was starting a boarding kennel who kept him in her house or with her and her dogs outside, so I was very lucky.

PamK · Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject:

Any chance that the obedience trainer can board the pup? Mine does and its great because he knows all of the commands the way I use them.

Sorry I can't help with the other issues. Derek learned off really quickly.

hoochmamas · Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:41 am Post subject:

i thought i replied to this, but it didn't show up..
it is so hard to train a pup and a family and have any kind of life outside of training in the beginning.. hang in there..
jumping..
have the pup drag a light lead around.. if he doesn't listen to "no jump", step on the lead so he can't.. repeat command. hooch is a back scratcher, too..
then, praise ALOT for 4 on the floor..
nipping..
sounds like teething.. we've lost many a sweatshirts last winter to this. hold his mouth closed gently and say "no bite".. squeal "owww" when he gets you.. like a sibling pup would. redirect him to his dog bed and give him a frozen, knotted washcloth or a frozen carrot to chew on..
try not to get excited.. keep your voice even..

if the pup is still not responding/listening.. repeat command and remove yourself from the puppy.. they want to be with you the most, after all.. so this will stand out as you meaning business..
when the pup is being good.. point it out and reward.. then they know what you want them to do, not just what you don't want them to do..
as far as boarding.. i wouldn't for that long.. he's young.. maybe see if you can have him go to a family member's home or have someone stay with him at your house.. it will be easier on him, IMO..
good luck!

Tammy

Thank you for replying so soon.

I know I must be really doing something wrong somewhere, I cannot imagine it is supposed to be this incredibly hard. Several times tonight (after 1.5 hours exploring woods and running around, off-leash and on) he has gone into a frenzy of nipping and throwing himself at me and at my daughter, who was reduced to wailing as he bit her in four places. While I am carrying feed to the horses, he lunges at me over and over, springing from every angle like some sort of kamikaze. I cannot keep my cool with this. And I cannot believe that, were he still with his mother, that she would have tolerated this at all. People are going to hate me, but after 5-6 warnings/ignoring etc, during the 3rd frenzy/attack, I twice pushed him down onto his back into the submissive pose, like his mom would do. Still launching himself at me, his jaws wide open to grab at me, I finally just pushed back, hard, he landed hard, yelped, and that was the end of it. It was like he got a cold shower. He came, stood quite close next to me (I was panting with exertion). Then we walked back to the house. Then, five minutes later, he was on the empty kitchen table, knocking down chairs.

I work from home, so I leave for maybe a couple of hours a day. We have a huge yard, horses, and live in the countryside. I've dog-proofed this house. I give him affection, regular socialization and structure. What am I doing wrong?! Sad

hoochmamas · Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:15 am Post subject:

wow.. maybe it is time to contact a behaviorist? it sounds like not your typical puppy stuff if he is lunging and biting after being exercised.. they def. feed off of your energy, so try as hard as you can to not escalate when he does.. maybe someone else will have better advise for you..
sometimes you NEED to alpha roll them.. don't feel bad.. it is not okay for him to bite and esp. when it comes to your children..
is he crate trained? do you do NILF training?

is it possible to send him to doggie boot camp the week you are away? i know it is a bit expensive, but it would be so worth it..
keep us posted..

anne · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject:

What is the breeding on this puppy?
How early was he separated from the litter?
What did you do with him from the time you got him to now as far as learning rules and obedience, etc?
Is he crate trained?
What is a typial day like with him?
Would you consider him "spoiled" (aren't they all) If so, on whose terms?

He sounds like a typical Weim puppy and yes it is a lot of work and it's hard. Every new puppy person should know that a new puppy is like this and should be ready to put in a lot of time with their dogs for at least the first year or 2. I promise it WILL pay you back for the next 10 years if you control them now. He is also at a difficult age. The more you have taught him until now, the easier it will be, as you can get a bit more "demanding" and need to reinforce what he already knows, and hopeuflly you have laid good groundwork.

The snapping in the air is not a sign of aggression. Even the biting that you have described probably is not. I know you said ignorning doesn't work but are you TRULY ignorning? I think one of the worst punishments for a Weim is ignorning them. I'd bet dollars to donuts that he's trying to get your attention and this is the way puppies play.

Tammy · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject:

I have papers for both the parents of Dakar, the breeder is a member of the national Weim club of France. Dakar was from her first litter as a breeder. I found her initially impressive in her depth of Weim knowledge, but was dismayed to discover later that Dakar's mother was bred again already, simply because she had gone into heat. I contacted her for help in training Dakar, and found her advice in that area unhelpful and limited (e.g. "I have to be stronger")

Dakar is not allowed to go in any bedrooms, also not on the couch. I have still been unable to teach "come" but "sit" is not a problem, neither is "stay." I also have not been able to stop him barking, although his is rarely excessive, yet. He is crate trained, and goes in very willingly at night, much less willingly in the day. He is quite social, the only thing that makes him resistant or nervous is riding in the car (carsickness?) and water. He used to be a horrendous leash-puller, but I have been going to a group obedience class for 2 weeks now, and at the very first class the teacher immediately strapped an "easy-walker" training harness on him, and that has made a WORLD of difference.

I really do not consider him spoiled. I have looked into the NILF training and now try to incorporate what I understand of that approach: for example, he has to sit by any closed door, then wait for me/any other two-legged creatures to pass through first, then he can go. He always has had to do something before deserving a treat.

As for his routine: when he is just with me, he is often very mellow, pleased to hang out in my vicinity, flopped out on the ground or shadowing me. Every day has some sort of outing (in France you can go in a lot more places with your dog) or extended walk for him. He can range around a very large yard, and has gotten into "landscaping" which I am not really sure how to address. He's regressed in his toilet training, which is part of the process, I am assuming. I never catch him at it, however, so I can never discipline him. Arg.

But when the kids come home from school, or a visitor drops in, then Dakar goes bonkers, with everyone, including me. I find it quite difficult to get the children to truly ignore him, as they are young and he is just all over the place. The only thing that works somewhat is a tip I got from a post you put up for someone else about biting (thank you!), which was to get dramatically upset with any bite then flounce off to another room, slamming the door. It seems to really surprise him, and sort of changes the subject. But when we are outside, in the field or whatever, there is no way to effectively ignore or get away. He bites (and jumps) a lot.

(and I personally find the snapping thing, and its frequency, pretty off-putting.)

What is he missing in his groundwork? The crate is his private space, as is his blanket in the kitchen. He is praised abundantly when doing the right thing. I do leave him for an hour or two in an outside area (which seems agonizing for him) while I am gone form the house. Other than the weekly class, he doesn't get lots of active play with other dogs.

I don't think I am doing him any favors if I just try to ignore the jumping and biting. I don't think his mother or litter-mates would have stood for it! And it makes us pretty miserable and frustrated...

rhdwa · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject:

Udo was really bad about jumping up and snapping, worse than any of my other weims or springers. The cure was the same. When the dog jumps up at you, yell a harsh NO! and raise your knee so the dog's chest runs into it. No sympathy for the dog being knocked backward either.

For snapping, I reach down and grasp his muzzle holding his mouth shut and command NO TEETH!

We have a lot of commands that are no followed by the action to be abstained from.

This may seem harsh but it does work. When I get home now I have two bouncy dogs eager for attention with lots of barking but no paws in the gut. The result is they get petted and told what good boys they are.

waitingonmyweim · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject:

You sound like you're at your wits end.

It's really hard to give good advice over the internet without really being able to understand the dog's environment and how he acts in person.

Because you're getting so frustrated and have hit a brick wall, so to speak with training him, I suggest you get professional help. If he's this bad at 5 months, I don't even want to think how he'll be between 6-12 months.

If you invest the time and money in a good behaviourist now, you'll have a much more enjoyable puppyhood with Dakar.

Good luck!!!

singsmom · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject:

Are you also taking him for disciplined daily "walks"? I did that with my first puppy and it seemed to identify who was Alpha (me) as well as making him sit at the door to go in or out and I always went first and ate first. And I would seek professional help if you can. He sounds tough.

Pharaoh07 · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 8:00 am Post subject:

I noticed a similar thing with my puppy - he's always been fine hanging out with my husband and me, but the moment we introduce him into an unstable environment (kids, adults with high pitched voices, lots of people, and/or high strung dogs), he goes beserk. He will start jumping onto people, knocking over kids, snapping in the air towards people's hair, running around the house destroying things, biting HARD, and then he'll head over to hump my leg as a finale Shocked

I'll typically take him outside for a walk and let him calm down. If I try to correct him there, he'll just jump higher and bite harder. Once I take him away from that situation, if he tries it again, I'll take physical action to show him who's alpha. He usually calms down pretty quickly - I guess he's used to our quiet household and isn't sure how to handle chaos!

I'm not sure about your situation, Tammy, maybe seeing a behaviorist would really help. Or getting into some intensive training classes with people who really know what they're doing.

I say, determine what makes your dog turn into kamikaze dog. For Winston, it's a high energy high stress chaotic environment. Identify the warning signs just before he turns into a little devil. Then slowly introduce him into that environment, stopping the behavior before it starts. My guy can only go ten minutes being calm during chaos, then all bets are off.

Underdonk · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:09 am Post subject:

Tammy

I still struggle with Dakar, even though we go to dog school once a week. There are no dog behaviourists around where I live, I am afraid.

I guess you keep plugging away. Now I am trying to wear him out with a doggy backpack when we go for walks. So far, the only result has been a little irritation behind his forelegs from the backpack strap...but he still jumps and bites!

DukesMom · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: