Well, I'm not an expert in the field, but I'm unsure what high protein has to do with those things, unless the dog is being overfed causing excess growth. I actually was curious and asked another person that specializes in mastiffs, so she forwarded this info:

Myth: Too much protein will make my large breed puppy grow too fast, and hurt him.

Fact: (Taken from Relationship of Nutrition to Developmental Skeletal Disease in Young Dogs by Daniel C. Richardson & Phillip W. Toll
It is too little protein that will actually cause skeletal problems in growing puppies.
Unlike other species, protein excess has not been demonstrated to negatively affect calcium metabolism or skeletal development in dogs. Protein deficiency, however, has more impact on the developing skeleton. In Great Dane puppies, a protein level of 14.6% (dry matter basis) with 13% of the dietary energy derived from protein can result in significant decreases in bodyweight and plasma albumin and urea concentrations.9,10 The minimum adequate level of dietary protein depends on digestibility, amino acids, and their availability from protein sources. A growth food should contain > 22% protein (dry matter basis) of high biologic value

Myth: I need to have a specific ratio of calcium to phosphorus or else my puppy will get a growth disorder.

Fact: It is the overall calcium level that affects everything. Calcium excess is the culprit. (same source as above... What can I say? it was a GREAT cumulative study)
The absolute level of calcium in the diet, rather than an imbalance in the calcium/phosphorus ratio, influences skeletal development.2 Young, giant-breed dogs fed a food containing excess calcium (3.3% dry matter basis) with either normal phosphorus(0.9% dry matter basis) or high phosphorus(3% dry matter basis, to maintain a normal calcium/phosphorus ratio) had significantly increased incidence of developmental bone disease.2 These puppies apparently were unable to protect themselves against the negative effects of chronic calcium excess.3 Further, chronic high calcium intake increased the frequency and severity of osteochondrosis.


Myth: I need to switch my large breed puppy to an adult food at 4-6 mos of age or else he will grow too fast and get a growth disorder.

Fact: (taken from the same source as above) Adult foods are often calorically less dense and have lower protein levels. Therefore, in order to get all that your puppy needs, you would need to feed more of the food. This causes an increase in the calcium levels, which could then result in a growth disorder.
Often puppies are switched from growth to maintenance-type foods to avoid calcium excess and skeletal disease. However, because some maintenance foods have much lower energy density than growth foods, the puppy must consume more dry matter volume to meet its energy requirement. If the calcium levels are similar (dry matter basis) between the two foods, the puppy will actually consume more calcium when fed the maintenance food. This point is exemplified in the case of switching a 15-week-old, 15-kg male Rottweiler puppy from a growth food containing, on an as fed b asis, 4.0 kcal/g metabolizable energy and 1.35% calcium (1.5% on a dry matter basis) to a maintenance food containing the same amount of calcium but at a lower, 3.2 kcal/g energy density. The puppy would require approximately 1,600 kcal/day. In order to meet this energy need the puppy would consume approximately 400g of the growth food (containing 5.4g of calcium) vs. 500g of the maintenance food (containing approximately 6.7g of calcium).

Myth: Large breed puppy food is just a marketing scam, and any puppy food or dog food is fine.

Fact: Large breed puppy foods are specifically formulated for controlled growth. These foods contain the appropriate levels of calcium, in addition to the appropriate balance of minerals, fat, and protein to ensure a healthy, steady growing puppy.

Myth: Raw-feeding will cause my puppy to have growth disorders because I can't control the calcium intake.

Fact: Raw feeders actually tend to have very nice, slow, even growing lines. As long as the 10% bone ratio adhered to as the pup grows, this ratio is the proper and precise percent that the pup needs.

Myth: I can find out what levels of specific nutrients are in my kibble by just reading the bag.

Fact: Don't simply rely what is on the bag. When you are researching these numbers, make sure that you are reading the MAX %, not just the minimum. If a max is unavailable to you, look on their website or email the company.

Myth: I need to supplement with Vitamin C/Ester C because my breeder said so because it'll prevent hip dysplasia (or some similar statement).

Fact: First of all, ANY complete, quality kibble should not need supplementing, period. Second, Vitamin C does basically...nothing.
L-ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) is necessary for hydroxylation of proline and lysine during biosynthesis of collagen, a major component of ligaments and bones. Food devoid of Vitamin C fed to puppies for 147 to 154 days neither affected growth nor caused skeletal lesions.12 There are no known dietary requirements for Vitamin C in the dog.

Myth: I have a medium-sized dog like a husky or a border collie, so I can feed regular puppy food.

Fact: This is speaking moreso from someone who has read the bags and compared them to the facts, then from an actual study. Medium sized and even small breed puppies can still grow too fast. They may not grow for a long enough period of time to develop some of the awful bowing or knuckling that we large/giant breed owners see, but they are not beyond getting pano or other problems. A small/medium breed puppy is not going to be harmed in any way by eating a large breed puppy food. However, a small/medium breed puppy could be just as susceptible to a growth/skeletal problem while on a regular puppy food.

Myth: Ol' Roy is just as good as Orijen!

Fact: First of all, because of a lack of nutritional density, you'd have to feed quite a bit more of Ol' Roy or any grocery store brand in order to give your pup the proper nutrition. And even then, the other health problems I'm sure you'd encounter would be insanely high because these foods don't get their ingredients from highly digestible sources. A bunch of protein means nothing when it comes from corn and it can't be digested.
Also, these are animals that are going to grow A LOT over a long period of time, they need all the nutrients they can get served up in the proper package (meat, not mystery ingredients). So what is it? Feed 15 cups a day and buy 20 bags a month, or feed 4-6 cups a day and buy 2 bags a month? Hmmm....

Myth: Puppies are meant to be rolly-polly.

Fact: Ugh, this is one of those things that I see in my own breed. It's one thing to have nice puppy chunk, but there is such a thing as an overweight puppy, and no it is not cute it is A BAD THING. Especially in large breed puppy joints, that extra weight is hard. But it seems like in these breeds everybody wants the chunky, big puppy because of course one of the reasons folks get large breeds is to have a large dog. Understand that intentionally beefing up a pup of any breed is wrong and harmful to the pup. I find this is an especially common practice amongst unscrupulous bully breed breeders. If you think your large breed pup is too thin, as long as he or she is not emaciated, he or she is probably fine. Whilst growing, it is better to be a little bit underweight than ANY bit overweight.

Myth: I cannot feed a grainfree kibble as they all have levels of calcium and phosphorus that are too high for my large breed puppy.

Fact: While many grainfree kibbles are inappropriate for large breed puppies (Wellness Core, Taste of the Wild, Canidae GF, Evo, etc) there are grainfree kibbles specifically formulated for large breed puppies. Orijen is one such company.
I also would like to caution those who see a food that is listed for "All Life Stages" and think it will be okay for a large breed puppy. PLEASE PLEASE check the maximum analysis on these foods. Taste of the Wild and Canidae both claim to have grainfree all life stages foods, but when you check out their maximum analysis they are completely inappropriate for a large breed puppy.
Conversely, Orijen also makes 6 Fresh Fish, which is an All Life Stages food and does indeed have the appropriate levels fro a growing puppy.
The rule of thumb is 4-4.5g of calcium per every 1000 calories.

Probably is the same person, but if you look at the reply of the poster below:

i did NOT say protein is the culprit, i said it has to be watched because kcals increase as protein increases- kcals are the problem, but both typically rise in relation.

Its just a matter of feeding less (sometimes a lot less).

I'm just relieved and content that my pups survived their youth without incident and the internet.
My eyes cross about the diet debate.
Mine always had a standard kibble but had an evening snack of raw and veggie from our leftovers.
Usually just on weekends.
I'm just digging the grain-free with a senior in night-time diapers and i just peal-a-way the pie crust she
makes overnight .
During the day she seems to mostly make it outside if she can remember where the dog door is.

The internet is certainly a good thing. Kibble makers are put under the microscope. A good skilled
writer can convince you of anything. It can be an enormous task to shuffle through it all...
Usually it just comes down to what makes you the most comfortable.

I used to think it was best to buy stuffie toys at the thrift instead of unregulated dog toys full of lead!
I thought a human infant toy would be safe and approved. Huh? Not so.

CherrystoneWeims wrote:Taste of the Wild is made by Diamond. Their S. Carolina plant is one of the ones that had problems with aflotoxin several years ago.

Be VERY careful with high protein foods (the Orijen puppy is high in protein) YOu can cause renal problems with too high of a protein.

This is EXTREMELY not true.


High protein foods that are grain based....yes....but not meat based.

If this were a true statement, how would you feed puppies raw diets? Orijen Large Puppy is very safe and very recommended to feed your large pup. Calcium and Phosphorus levels are dead on. It has 40% proten from 10 sources of meat and absolutely no grains. Fat percentage is 16% so it is still lean (partly due to the fish content).


People have been lead in the wrong direction about high protein for pups. It has to be meat based high protein. A grain based high protein or high fat will cause some of the problems you spoke of.

wow... heated debate over kibbles... I recommend Natural Balance. It's what I use ever since the food my Weims were on in 2007 got recalled. THEN I became a rep for the comp. There are a few great lines of grain free as well as a high quality (NO FILLER, NO CORN, NO WHEAT OR SOY) Ultra Premium mixed carb and protein formula. I suggest you check out their website: naturalbalnceinc.net and also there is a good dog food test at a site called playdogexcellent.com you grade/rate foods and see where they stand.

Idaviruma....excellant write up!

WOW, I am overwelmed after reading all this information...good info though! I think I will try Blue Buffalo??? What do you all think of this? What does Acana cost? I am interested in that as well. I guess I can find this out on my own by going to a pet store

I feed a raw diet. I feel that it is very important for any pet owner to put in some work info figuring out what type of food best works for their pup. I am glad you are asking the question and as you can tell there are many opinions on this subject, please do your research. Personally, I would never feed anything that has corn, peas, gran, preservatives, food coloring, or anything that I do not know or understand when reading the ingredient label. As for the protein deal, I have been feeding raw since 7 months, I wish I had started earlier, I would have saved myself a lot of heartache and my pup would have ended up at the vets office a lot less. Good luck with the food search.

I think that Blue Buffalo is a better bad food. They don't make it themselves....in fact most of it is made by Dad's Dog Food.


If you are willing to pay Blue Buff price, then check out Acana, Innova or Merrick. These are all family owned brands made in family owned facilities. If you'd like to go the distance on a kibble, then check out Orijen or Evo.

Wanna take it one step further, check out The Honest Kitchen. This is certainly better than kibble, yet doesn't have the pitfalls of raw. Everyone has their reasons for not feeding raw....whatever....so try The Honest Kitchen.

I've been feeding Eukanuba for over 20 years. I've had good luck with it and my dogs have lots of energy to run in the field without running out of gas. They haven't had problems with the grains and keep in good weight. I've tried other foods and they couldn't keep the weight on them in field season.

Pam, Please keep in mind...that might be fine for YOUR WELL-BRED DOGS; not dogs from bybs who have a plethora of immune/digestive disorders.
And I also beg to differ w/ the thought of it being a good food... read the ingredients. In the first 5-10, is there corn/corn meal? ground wheat? by-products? glutens? Grains are filler and that's why its cheaper and you end up feeding more of it... Or is there whole and novel grain? defined animal protein? Thing is, years ago, before the internet and education, we all fed sub-par food to dogs because we didnt know better... My husband's dog never went to a vet a day in his life and lived 19 years eating GRAVY TRAIN or CHUCK WAGON Dogs today couldn't do that.

Wow, this is a really interesting thread! I've just perused the whole thing and would like to add my 2 cents. Someone said it earlier, every dog is different. And someone else said, it all comes down to what you are comfortable with. Do your research, and make the best decision you can within your budget. There are lots of strong opinions on this subject and rightfully so. We all want the best for our fur kids because we want them to have a healthy long life. So do what you think is best for your dog.

I agree, its not my intent to take away the attention from the original poster, so I apoligize for that. Its wise to do as much research as possible and then make a decision based on what you feel comfortable with.

Keightley- Blue Buffalo is a decent food, although they reformulated some of their lines and now they have more grains then meat in them. So when you look at the ingridients, if the meat is listed, make sure its backed by a named meal meal ( ex. chicken, chicken meal, ...). I personally prefer their grain free Wilderness line, but its not suitable for puppies.

Acana provincial is a good food, there are 3 formulas (chicken, lamb, fish) and I use all 3 in my rotation with excellent results. Although, just like Orijen, it can be hard to come by, you'll have to check their website for store locations.

Another reliable company is Natura, they make Innova along with few other brands.

My baby Willow will be officially 3 months on the 18th. The breeders had her on Retriever from Tractor Supply. We put her on Royal Canin large breed puppy. However, it is costly. A neighbor of mine is a Vet Tech. and a breeder of Saints. She uses Diamond. Half the cost, better ingredients. I started her on this about a week ago, she loves it.
My vet told me to feed her 3x a day, about a 1/2 c to a cup at each feeding. It is funny you said about the "ribs," noticed that Willow is a bit thin at her midsection. But she is growing taller! I cannot believe how fast they grow. Good luck with your Picky Puppy!