NIFL... And other behavior stuff..

Deiota

hello.
I own a puppy of 7 weeks old male named Gandalf for about a week and half.
I'm reading a lot about training (basic for now) and I want to try this with Gandalf.
He's pretty cute, love him so, but since I've had two cocker spaniels (one passed away) that didnt obey me at all... not even the sit command, I want to make different this time! I need this to work, specially because I have a kid at home..
Well, Gandalf is stubborn, as all weims, right? he's not different at all.
Because he's a puppy I guess, he loves biting (my hands, for instance... ) and loves to bites my cocker (he doesnt like it that much) and loves to bite my cat (he doesnt care... Sad

).
For now, we can handle it but he gets bigger and bites get painfull and I dont want to estimulate it any more. I want to end this thing.
My kid, (3 years old) starts to be afraid of him, since he bits her jeans and he screams and all... and he thinks she's playing with him and ... does it more and more... until she starts yelling or crying if we're not around.. or if she jumps to the couch (where he cant get her..).
So.. I need your help!
He's just a baby, I'm not able to teach him commands like sit and still and all (he looses his attention too quickly, specially because there are many atractions in the house.... cats and kid and dog and all).
I've read about the NILF program and I want to give it a shot.. What can I do first (ignore him)?
Is he old enough to get the message and start trainning process (like sit and all)?
Can you please help me out? I dont want to loose the best timing for start training but I also dont want to hurry things up (if he's not ready).
Deiota

peppernaei · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:54 am Post subject:

I believe you can never start training to early. I like positive training methods rather than correction and use food for initial training. Of course your puppy's attention span is going to be short but so can your training sessions. 5-10 minutes a few times is day is fine. Compared to my other breeds of dogs I find weims get bored with the repetition and 3-5 tries a session is all that they really require. I would look for an obedience school in your area and sign up for a puppy class. It is also great for socialization.

As for nipping, I would give a loud ouch in a high pitch tone and walk away from the pup to show my displeasure. If the pup continued to chase and nip at me I would again say ouch and try to leave the room and close the door (for a second -- before they get into something or have an accident). Isolation is a punishment to a pack animal. Beyond that if the pup still didn't get it I would crate the pup (kindly) until it settles down or if you wanted to stay away from the crate use a leash to hold them in an area until they settle down.

NILF is great. Easy things to do now are making your pup sit and wait for food and before going through doors/on stairs, never giving treats unless the pup does something first whether sit, down, going potty, etc., not letting the pup up on the furniture (or only when you ask and also practice asking them to get off when you want) and making the dog move out of your way rather than you moving out of theirs.

Best of luck! Puppy face

sptddog · Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:21 pm Post subject:

Agree with the previous poster - it's never too early to set the rules. As for your three year old, she should be HEAVILY involved in 'training' the pup. As you work with the puppy, she should too. What we did was as soon as I had our pup sitting decently (not consistently, but when he would sit when I pushed his butt down), I then had my three year old say the command, and hold the treat. I handled the dog from the side, and said the command with her, and pushed his butt down. She ran him through his 'tricks' every night, and in only a few weeks could do them with him herself. It took daily work and my effort as well as hers, but it's been worth it now as he knows she's also a boss. In addition, I'd recommend grabbing the pup *ever* time he chases, jumps, or nips too hard at your daughter. Don't grab hard, don't yell, just take his collar, sit him down, and tell him no chase, no jump, no bite, whatever. The biting is much easier after the puppy teeth go - and even with my daughter, we yipped, turned our backs on him and walked away if he was too rough. It didn't take long!

NILF is super important in setting the alpha role, and your daughter can do it too. Remember too to handle him sort of roughly at times, to get him used to a youngsters more 'rough' (but non-intentional) play.

It was so worth it for us, our pup is 10 months, and he and my daughter LOVE each other. She and he actually fell asleep together in his crate yesterday for over an hour. Very Happy

That's when it's worth the work!

DanniGirl · Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:29 am Post subject:

Exactly what Peppernaei said! Wink

Sptddog also had a great suggestion about your daughter's involvement. Very Happy

josh · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:52 am Post subject:

I will echo everyone elses sentiments thus far. Though I did not realize it had a name, I have been doing NILF with all my dogs. They have to sit while I get their food ready, and stay seated while I set it on the floor. Eventually we have worked up to stay, and she sits and waits for me to exclaim "OK" before she goes over to eat. It works well. I started doing this with Izzy the first week we had her.

Another idea that I have used for Izzy is instead of a regular meal, use her meal as a tougher training session. I'll take her food out in a Tupperware with me into the yard, tell her to sit and stay, and then walk across the yard. I then tell her to come here and sit when she arrives, and she is then rewarded with some of her food from my hand. Wash, rinse, repeat. You don't want to do this so much that they become treat motivated, but once they have learned what the commands mean a reward of praise and petting is all she wants.

Heck, at 3 months old Izzy already knows the border of the dining room/living room and stays out when we are having dinner.

Relatives and friends sometimes make comments that I am hard on our dogs, but they get as much affection and love as they do discipline, and in the end they have all been well mannered dogs that listen. 6 months later the same relatives or friends will comment on how well behaved the dogs are. Wink

anne · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject:

A 7 week old puppy has the mental capacity of an adult dog, just not the attention span and cannot draw on experience. Trianing starts before your puppy even comes to their new home. I know many breeders who have pups that sit, stay, down, retrieve, etc, before they are 8 weeks old. Don't undersell whatyour puppy is capable of. Yes he is a baby, so training sessions need to be very short and fun, but he is more than capable of learning quite a bit.

Second, NEVER leave any puppy or dog without supervision around a child!!

Finally start bite inhibition training now. This is almost as important and something that needs to be addressed very early, along with housebreaking and crate training.

Finally, NILIF should be an integral part of your interaction with your puppy. It should become second nature to you and everyone in your family.

anne · Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject:

http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/bitestop.htm

The Bite Stops Here Dogs in Canada Annual, 1991
Puppies should be encouraged to play-bite – so you can teach them when to stop.
By Dr. Ian Dunbar

Puppies bite, and thank goodness they do. Puppy biting is a normal and natural puppy behavior. In fact, it is the pup that does not mouth and bite much as a youngster that augers ill for the future. Puppy play-biting is the means by which dogs learn to develop bite inhibition, which is absolutely essential later in life.

The combination of weak jaws with extremely sharp, needle-like teeth and the puppy penchant for biting results in numerous play-bites which, although painful, seldom cause serious harm. Thus, the developing pup receives ample necessary feedback regarding the force of its bites before it develops strong jaws – which could inflict considerable injury. The greater the pup’s opportunity to play-bite with people, other dogs and other animals, the better the dog’s bite inhibition as an adult. For puppies that do not grow up with the benefit of regular and frequent interaction with other dogs and other animals, the responsibility of teaching bite inhibition lies with the owner.

Certainly, puppy biting behavior most eventually be eliminated: we cannot have an adult dog playfully mauling family, friends and strangers in the manner of a young puppy. However, it is essential that puppy biting behaviour is gradually and progressively eliminated via a systematic four-step process. With some dogs, it is easy to teach the four phases in sequence. With others, the puppy biting may be so severe that the owners will need to embark on all four stages at once. However, it is essential that the pup first learn to inhibit the force of its bites before the biting behaviour is eliminated altogether.

Inhibiting the force of bites

No painful bites The first item on the agenda is to stop the puppy bruising people. It is not necessary to reprimand the pup and, certainly, physical punishments are contra-indicated, since they tend to make some pups more excited, and insidiously erode the puppy’s temperament and trust in the owner. But it is essential to let the pup know when it hurts. A simple "ouch!" is usually sufficient. The volume of the "ouch" should vary according to the dog’s mental make-up; a fairly soft "ouch" will suffice for sensitive critters, but a loud "OUCH!!!" may be necessary for a wild and woolly creature. During initial training, even shouting may make the pup more excited, as does physical confinement. An extremely effective technique with boisterous pups is to call the puppy a "jerk!" and leave the room and shut the door. Allow the pup time to reflect on the loss of its favourite human chew toy immediately following the hard nip, and then return to make up. It is important to indicate that you still love the pup – it is the painful bites which are objectionable. Instruct the pup to come and sit, and then resume playing. Ideally, the pup should have been taught not to hurt people well before it is three months old.

It is much better for the owner to leave the pup than to try to physically restrain and remove it to a confinement area at a time when it is already out of control. If one pup bites another too hard, the bitee yelps and playing is postponed while the injured party licks its wounds. The biter learns that hard bites curtail an otherwise enjoyable play session. Hence, the bite learns to bite more softly when the play session resumes.

No jaw pressure at all The second stage of training is to eliminate bite pressure entirely, even thought the bites no longer hurt. When the puppy is munching away, wait for a nibble that is harder than the rest and respond as if it really hurt: "Ouch, you worm! Gently! That hurt me you bully!" The dog begins to think "Good Lord! These humans are so mamby pamby I’ll have to be really careful when mouthing their delicate skins." And that’s precisely what we want the dog to think – so he’ll be extremely careful when playing with people. Ideally, the puppy should no longer be exerting any pressure when mouthing by the time it is four to five months old.

Inhibiting the incidence of mouthing

Always stop mouthing when requested. Once the puppy has been taught to gently mouth rather than bite, it is time to reduce the frequency of mouthing behaviour and teach the pup that mouthing is okay until requested to stop. Why? Because it is inconvenient to try to drink a cup of tea, or to answer the telephone, with 50 pounds of pup dangling from your wrist, that’s why.

It is better to first teach the "OFF!" command using a food lure (as demonstrated in the Sirius video*). The deal is this: "If you don’t touch this food treat for just two seconds after I softly say "Off", I will say "Take it" and you can have the treat." Once the pup has mastered this simple task, up the ante to three seconds of non-contact, and then five, eight, 12, 20 and so on. Count out the seconds and praise the dog with each second: "Good dog one, good dog two, good dog three…" and so forth. If the pup touches the treat before being told to take it, shout "Off!" and start the count from zero again. The pup quickly learns that it can not have the treat until it has not touched it for, say, eight seconds – the quickest way to get the treat is not to touch it for the first eight seconds. In addition, the regular handfeeding during this exercise helps preserve the pup’s soft mouth.

Once the pup understnads the "Off!" request, it may be used effectively when the puppy is mouthing. Say "Off!" and praise the pup and give it a treat when it lets go. Remember, the essence of this exercise is to practise stopping the dog from mouthing – each time the pup obediently ceases and desists, resume playing once more. Stop and start the session many times over. Also, since the puppy wants to mouth, the best reward for stopping mouthing is to allow it to mouth again. When you decide to stop the mouthing session altogether, heel the pup to the kitchen and give it an especially tasty treat.

If ever the pup refuses to release your hand when requested, shout "Off!", rapidly extricate your hand and storm out of the room mumbling, "Right. That’s done it, you jerk! You’ve ruined it! Finish! Over! No more!" and shut the door in the dog’s face. Give the pup a couple of minutes on its own and then go back to call the pup to come and sit and make up. But no more mouthing for at least a couple of hours.

In addition to using "Off!" during bite inhibition training, the request has many other useful applications: not to touch the cat, the Sunday roast on the table, the table, the baby’s soiled diapers, the baby, an aggressive dog, a fecal deposit of unknown denomination… Not only does this exercise teach the "Off!" request, but also to "Take it" on request.

Never start mouthing unless requested. By the time the pup is five months old, it must have a mouth as soft as a 14-year-old working Lab; it should never exert any pressure when mouthing, and the dog should immediately stop mouthing when requested to do so by any family member. Unsolicited mouthing is utterly inappropriate from an older adolescent or an adult dog. It would be absolutely unacceptable for a six-month-old dog to approach a child and commence mouthing her arm, no matter how gentle the mouthing or how friendly and playful the dog’s intentions. This is the sort of situation which gives parents the heebie-jeebies and frightens the living daylights out of the mouthee. At five months of age, at the very latest, the dog should be taught never to touch any person’s body – not even clothing – with its jaws unless specifically requested.

Whether or not the dog will ever be requested to mouth people depends on the individual owner. Owners that have the mental largesse of a toothpick quickly let play-mouthing get out of control, which is why many dog training texts strongly recommend not indulging in games such as play-fighting. However, it is essential to continue bite inhibition exercises, otherwise the dog’s bite will begin to drift and become harder as the dog grows older. For such people, I recommend that they regularly hand-feed the dog and clean its teeth – exercises that involve the human hand in the dog’s mouth. On the other hand, for owners who have a full complement of common sense, there is no better way to maintain the dog’s soft mouth than by play-fighting with the dog on a regular basis. However, to prevent the dog from getting out of control and to fully realize the many benefits of play-fighting, the owner must play by the rules and teach the dog to play by the rules. (Play-fighting rules are described in detail in our Preventing Aggression behaviour bookelt.*)

Play-fighting teaches the dog to mouth hands only (hands are extremely sensitive to pressure) and never clothing. Since shoelaces, trousers and hair have no neurons and cannot feel, the owner cannot provide the necessary feedback that the dog is once more beginning to mouth too hard. The game also teaches the dog that it must adhere to rules regarding its jaws, regardless of how worked up it may be. Basically, play-fighting teaches the owner to practice controlling the dog when it is excited. It is important to refine such control in a structured setting, before a real-life situation occurs.

In addition, play-fighting quickly becomes play-training. Starting the games with a training period, i.e., with the dog under control in a down-stay, produces utterly solid stays at a time when the dog is excited in vibrant anticipation of the game. Similarly, frequent stopping the game for short periods and integrating multiple training interludes (especially heel work and recalls) into the game motivates the dog to provide eager and speedy responses. Each time the owner stops the game, he or she may use the resumption of play as a reward for bona fide obedience. Everything’s fun!

Potential problems

Inhibiting incidence before force A common mistake is to punish the pup in an attempt to get it to stop biting altogether. At the best, the puppy no longer mouths those family members who can effectively punish the dog but, instead, the pup directs its mouthing sprees toward those family members who cannot control it, e.g., a child. To worsen matters, parents are often completely unaware of the child’s plight because the pup does not mouth adults. At worst, the puppy no longer mouths people at all. Hence, its education about the force of its bite stops right there. All is fine until someone accidentally shuts the car door on the dog’s tail, whereupon the dog bites and punctures the skin, because the dog had insufficient bite inhibition.

Puppies that don’t bite Shy dogs seldom socialize or play with other dogs or strangers. Hence, they do not play-bite and hence, they learn nothing about the power of their jaws. The classic case history is of a dog that never mouthed or bit as a pup and never bit anyone as an adult – that is, until an unfamiliar child tripped and fell on the dog. The first bite of the dog’s career left deep puncture wounds, because the dog had developed no bite inhibition. With shy puppies, socialization is of paramount importance, and time is of the essence. The puppy must quickly be socialized sufficiently, so that it commences playing (and hence, biting) before it is four-and-a-half months old.

If a puppy does not frequently mouth and bite and/or does not occasionally bite hard, it is an emergency. The puppy must learn its limits. And it can only learn its limits by exceeding them during development and receiving the appropriate feedbacks.

Ian Fraser Dunbar lives in California and has a doctorate in animal behaviour. He is author of the book Dog Behaviour and 15 Behaviour Booklets; he will be holding seminars in Canada in 1991.

*The Preventing Aggression behaviour booklet and the Sirius Puppy Training videotape by Dr. Dunbar are available from James & Kenneth Publishers – Canada. For more information, contact Judy Emmert, Flander’s Farm, R. R. 2, campbellville, Ontario. (416)659-3955.

Dogs in Canada - http://www.dogs-in-canada.com

UPDATE:

Nowadays the OUCH has become a much softer owwww. Whereas it is important to give a puppy feedback that his bite hurt, there is no need to blow his eardrums out. The owww need not be loud or scary, it just has to be effective. Really the owww is just an NRM (no reward marker). Much more important is calming and settling the puppy down before letting him play bite again.

Bite inhibition training comprises four stages:
1. Say owww and calm/settle pup after painful bites, to teach no pain.
2. Say owww and calm/settle pup after harder bites, to teach no pressure, so that biting becomes mouthing. And then the final two stages focus on decreasing the frequency of mouthing.
3. Teach the puppy 'off' via all-or-none reward training so that the puppy learns that mouthing is OK (in fact it is necessary to develop and maintain a soft mouth) but that he must stop when requested.
4. Teach the puppy that he may never initiate mouthing without first being requested. And that he is only allowed to mouth hands only, never clothing or hair. Clothing has no neurons, hence no feeling, and hence no feedback.

Kaiser · Puppy Joined: 11 Jul 2008 Posts: 28 Location: Alberta

Some interesting info in that last post, Anne. Thanks.