Need some advice on a real problem

Indian

Well here's the deal. When I adopted Ashley I was told she could be aggressive, And up until Saturday I saw no sign of this that couldnt be handled easily. However She had barked at My GF son several times. But that's about as far as she had gone. Until this Saturday that is. Now granted there was some bit of excitement and activity going on, But she went after him aggressively. Luckily these are farmers and they know how to react to animals. We are pretty sure it was mostly bark and no bite. Just a warning. The thing is she just does not like men, AT ALL. As you could imagine, This left everyone in shock and a little uncomfortable, Let alone confused as to what could have set her off like that. She knew him, and she was and is comfortable around him, After it happened she went over to him with tail wagging like she was embarrassed about what she just did. And I mean it was mere seconds after the incident. But as I've said, With men(other than me) she acts uncomfortable until she knows them. She doesn't act shy at all around women. And now we've seen Ashley's "bad" side. Any thoughts on this by members would be greatly appreciated. Also, I work in Ithaca NY and will be calling Cornell University's animal hospital to try and get her into the animal behaviorists for a visit. This dog is such an other wise sweet dog to everyone, I hope and pray we can get to the bottom of her problems.

I swear to god there should be a class and a test to be a dog owner. As this is not her fault at all. Someones ignorance has made this dog like this.

weimdawgs · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject: Ashley

Pat,

You can give Julie a call, too, for some possible insight. Also, I think she can put you in touch with the behaviorist at U of P that was working with Ashley.

I am so sorry. I know you can work through this with her, it may take some time and patience.

BustaGirl · Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:34 pm Post subject:

Hi, I'm glade u realize this is not the dogs fault here.
I highly recommend getting a dog listener out, u may find one in ur area by looking on here.

http://www.janfennellthedoglistener.com/

Their are also a couple of DVD's & books u can get out now from either u library or good book store or order from the website I gave by jan fennell.

She has studied the Wolf's to work out how they live in the wild & their launguage & have applyed it to dogs & is very successful. No choker chains or gadgets. Just common sense, she was inspired by "Monty Roberts" The Horse Whisperer.;

Good Luck.

josie · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:09 am Post subject:

I would definitely not recommend Jan Fennell's books or her theory. They are based around the concept that humans are part of the dog pack, that you have to be "alpha" dog in the pack and do all sorts of crazy things like eating a biscuit before feeding your dog. She claims that these theories are based on wolf hierarchies but firstly wolves have evolved away from dogs for thousands of years and secondly even in a wolf pack the puppies eat first, although they are the lowest ranking.

There is always a much simpler way of understanding dog behaviour than using a complex dominance theory such as Jan Fennells. There is more information on dominance theory and why it is outdated here:

http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2004/Debunking.pdf

Indian, it sounds like you've got things covered by seeing a qualified behaviourist so good luck with that. You probably need a programme of systematic desensitisation to men, but I'm sure the behaviourist will sort that out for you.

anne · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject:

I think it's a great sign that you are getting warning behaviors like barking before "going after" anyone. Systematic desensitization like Josie mentions is the key I think as well. Do a google search on it, there's lots of info on it for people and the concept is the same for dogs.

Also that is really great that you ahve Cornell near you.

Indian · Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the replys guys.

Lynn, I've talked with the people at U of Penn. Not to sound nuts but, I'm not real crazy about there theories. And I just wasn't to convinced at there report of what they thought. They said she was a "resource guarder", Like food guarder. Not so what so ever, She eats right next to my GF's dogs all the time, No problems what so ever. And there are other things they said in there report that I just have found not true about her.

Butsa, Ty for the link, Me having been a dog person my whole life, understand where she(Jan) is coming from. And yes, dogs are in the end, a pack animal. We can try and denie it but its a fact. For proof ask anyone that has more than one dog, Is there a "pecking order"? Yes there is, Now take a look at anyone that doesn't obedience train there dog as opposed to someone that does. They must know, The dog that is, That the human is in charge of things. Yep, the human is the alpha in the pack.

But in the end, As I've stated this behavior of Ashley's is a result of someones ignorance. Be it physical abuse or just plain "training" to attack strangers(don't laugh I've seen it). I just wish I could talk with the original owners to try and gain some insight into this.

She has an appointment with a doggy shrink on Friday. So I guess we'll try and figure this out. And no, I will not just give up on her, Its my responsibility to try and straighten this sweet animal out.

josie · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 3:54 am Post subject:

Yes, dogs are a pack animal, and yes they have a hierarchy within that pack. But humans are not a part of it. Why should we be? We are a different species.

A dog sits and waits whilst the owner goes through the door first. Does this mean the owner is the alpha? Or does it just mean that the dog has learnt it gets a reward if it sits and waits, or a punishment if it doesn't? Why over-complicate things by getting into pack hierarchy stuff?

For as long as there is a tried and tested, scientific, explanation for all canine learning and behaviour - which there is, it's called "learning theory" and involves the usage of rewards and punishment - then why create some more complicated reasoning like pack hierarchy to explain behaviour?

I mean, there is a scientific reason why a ball falls to the ground. It's called gravity and has been tested in laboratories and witnessed in real life zillions of times. I guess we could say that fairies intervene and prevent the ball from floating upwards, forcing it to the ground - but why concoct a more complicated and unscientifically proven theory?