My NOT SO precious angel

BAYLOR · Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 4:02 pm Post subject: My NOT SO precious angel

Okay so to catch you up I have a weim she is about a year and a half her name is Baylor. Yes she is a little spoiled but she is just so cute I cant help it. She is generally really lazy but of course she does have those moments. I can take her for like a thirty minute walk and she comes home and collapses. She is very much of a touch dog and loves just to curl up in a little ball beside me (making sure some part of her is touching me) and sleep. Those lazy/calm behaviors are only so when it is just me or someone she is very familiar with around. If someone new comes around she will not listen to anything I say (e.g., jumps, gets in their face, goes crazy). How can I control these behaviors? She also has SERIOUS separation anxiety which I know is common of the breed but chewing on the edge of my couch, rug, clothes (if she can find them) every time I leave the house is getting really old. What can I do? Any suggestions would be great.

anne · Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:01 pm Post subject:

You've got mutliple things going on and you may find that changing some training things will help the anxiety behaviors.

First you say she's spoiled. That's all well and good, we all spoil our dogs. But you need to make sure it's on YOUR terms. Does she dictate or do you? How are you reacting to your dog when you leave and come back? Has she been trained to be alone? Is she crate trained?

You say she doesn't listen when people come over. Does she listen otherwise? Have you done any trianing with distractions? Have you gone to an obedience class?

A Weim that is tired after a walk is very unusual..... How much time do you spend doing somethign that mentally stimulates her? Does she WANT to do more active thigns like retreiving a ball or running? Does she liek to play with other dogs?

josie · Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject:

Hi -

Enroll in a good obedience class (if there is more than one class available in your area, watch them before deciding).

Here are some links, in the mean time:

Crate training: http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/crate-train.pdf

Separation Anxiety: http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/2002/sa.htm

BAYLOR · Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:59 pm Post subject:

I guess I made her sound like a heathen. She really is a well behaved dog, she is spoiled but I am the one in control. Her spoiling began when she was about 3 months old when we were in a car accident my hip was broken and her eyes got scratched from the broken glass she was very pitiful and needy during that time and we were together at all times because I could not do much of anything. Following that time was when the real separation issues began. I had to start back for the spring semester at school so she started being left alone again. As far as her problem with new people it is not in all situations the over excitement only occurs when it is in our home or somewhere that she is very comfortable (e.g., my parents house, boyfriends house). If we are at places like the creek or park she is really good about being off the leash and listening to me even when there are people around this has become a recently acquired skill I worked alot with her as a puppy but she never could quite control herself but here recently it is like the light has clicked and she suddenly gets it. She still somewhat listens to me with new people in our home but not very often and especially not when they first get there. She gets very excited for the first few minutes and then once she gets over the excitement she becomes very curious taking them her toys, standing right in front of them (I guess just making sure that they know she is there). Back to the separation issues she has her good days and her bad. When I leave my house I always put her blanket and baby (stuffed animal) on the couch give her a treat and tell her that I will be back. When I return home I can always tell how she has behaved just on how she greets me. If she has been behaving she will run up very excited to see me and she always gets praised and rewarded but if she has misbehaved she holds her ears back and slowly comes over to me looking down on those days she doesn't get any treats. I really do feel like she knows how she is supposed to behave because she comes to the door and greets me, this is before I have seen anything that she has or hasn't done so I do not give her any indications of being happy or mad. I was planning on crate training but I gave into the horrible screaming and throwing herself against the kennel door which I now definitely regret. I have gone back and forth with the idea of trying to crate train now but there are days where she is alone from 8 to 5 and I just can't convince myself to leave her in a crate for that long. As far as her laziness she does love to play fetch with sticks and balls but when she gets tired she just gets her stick lays down and starts chewing on it until we go inside. When we have gone camping she had alot of fun she played fetch, swam a little, and played with other dogs. She was great the first afternoon and until about noon on the next day but after that she just wanted to be in the shade and was ready to go home she made it very known by pouting. She loves all dogs big or little she really does have the best temperament I have ever seen. I have never seen her growl at another dog (even over food), she lays on the ground to play with small dogs and plays rough with big dogs. We did one obedience class when she was younger but it was just the basic things which she could already do so she became bored with the class. She would do the commands but she used most of her energy toward trying to get the other dogs to play with her.

josie · Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:12 am Post subject:

I would keep going with the obedience class, but then I think that almost all dogs should almost always be going to obedience class Laughing

To some extent, the excitement when new people come round is understandable. Mine get excited when we have new people over too. If you know she isn't going to obey commands in this situation (yet), then don't give them, because if you give them and she blows you off, you are just teaching her that it's ok to ignore commands and she doesn't need to respond to them always. So - only give the command when you are almost certain she is going to respond. In the mean time keep working on it under other distractions (in the park, at a distance to other people and then closer and closer to other people, at obedience class etc etc) until eventually she will be able to listen to you when you have people over to your house.

Some Weims can be real exciteable and some people you have over may not appreciate the dog being everywhere, doing everything, and being the constant focus of attention just by its busy-ness. So you probably need to be able to shut her away somewhere, have a stuffed kong handy to keep her busy etc.

As for the separation anxiety, I still don't think she "knows" when she has been destructive, as you put it - even though you haven't seen what the house looks like yet. What I reckon has happened is: In the past she has been destructive like this, you have come home and you _have_ seen what she has done before reacting angrily (even if not really mad, they can tell when you are unhappy). So, she has learnt an A>B thing: When I am destructive and then my owner comes home, my owner is angry. So now, even though you haven't seen the state of the house: She knows she has been destructive...you have just come home...and she is just anticipating how she thinks you are going to react and appeasing that before it has even happened with appeasement gestures.

Just because she has learnt this relationship (I destroy the house, mom is mad) doesn't mean she has learnt it is a cause-and-effect thing, just that one thing follows the other in time. And it also doesn't help her at the moment when she feels stressed and is home alone - dogs can't think ahead and reason and say "Well now, I feel mighty upset right now, but I can't express that because mom will be mad in the future when she gets back" - they live in the moment more.

If she is stressed and you are leaving her from 8-5 some days, you should be leaving her with way more than 1 treat. You need to be really creative about ways to keep her occupied in a more acceptable way. Here are some ideas:

*Stuffed kongs, many of them. Even better, is the Kong Time machine which dispenses 4 kongs randomly during the day so your dog can't eat them all at once and then get stressed later - here it is at a good price: http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=0&mscssid=9E4WSX41QU708MMJ8SSLBKRJ912WBWA9&pf_id=0030169

*Cardboard boxes with staples and tape removed, several inside each other with a treat inside the inner-most one. (Especially good if she is destructive when left as she can rip up cardboard boxes instead of your house - it does create lots of cardboard bits though!)

*Buster cubes, treat dispenser balls, wobbly pyramids

That's what I can think of off the top of my head, other people might have more suggestions. After a few weeks or even months of leaving her with all this stuff, if it's successful, she will probably start to feel less anxious when left because it means all this fun stuff instead....

WeiMe · Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:38 am Post subject:

I agree with Josie. One of the most beneficial things I read about weimaraners when I was first researching the breed was that they do best if they are in continuing obedience training. My weim Scout has been through puppy kindergarten, basic obedience twice, CGC twice, and is currently in agility. I think it was worth every hour spent since she is really a well behaved dog. This is important since I take her everywhere with me. The classroom setting offers a lot that training at home does not. If you feel Baylor is bored in the basic obedience class you could take a Canine Good Citizen course. In CGC you work on more advanced obedience while training behaviors that make a really nice companion dog.

I also really love the Kong-time. Scout is alone for 12-13 hours when I work. Luckily since I work the night shift she sleeps a lot of that. The kong-time really gives her something to look forward to and it is pretty cute when I get home and she has all 4 kongs on the bed next to her. I would recommend getting rechargeable batteries since it does go through them pretty fast.

BAYLOR · Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:22 am Post subject:

Thank you so much for your replies. That really gives me some good ideas.

anne · Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:54 pm Post subject:

I don't think you made her sound bad, she sounds like a typical Weim.

I am in full agreement with Josie and WeiMe. A weim needs to have his mind challenged. I hear people sometimes say they need to exercise their Weim at the dog park for 2 hours a day or else pay the consequences, and I think that is BS. Weims a want to INTERACT with you. They are busy, busy and I just don't mean physically. People need to spend time doing with their Weims, hunting is the best IMO but since that is not practical for most, then alternate games like find games are good. Also retrieiving (throwing a tennis ball). ANY type of obedience, but ESPECIALLY AGILITY because agility is teamwork just like hunting and it is BOTH mentally and physcially active. It also gives a dog with confidence issues the confidence it needs. It provides exercises in self control. If she is bored with the class, well that is typical Weim. You need to keep yoruself one step ahead of the dog.

If you exercise her in the morning and do some obedience work with her to exercise her mind in the morning before you leave for work or shcool, then feed her in her crate, she should be in the frame of mind to be relaxed and calm. She'll nap mostly during the day. Then when you get home, you can do some more work with her. DOn't htink of it as a chore, think of it as playing with your dog - with structure. Go to classes, I have sometiems have trouble having the discipline to work on whatever it is, and find that if I have a class to go to, I enjoy it more and I will do more. Plus classes provide distractions which is what you need.

rpoche1 · Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Weim behavior

From my limited experience with weims:

1) You can't keep them from digging (or anything else) if they are set on it. All you can hope is that they find a place they prefer to dig so that your backyard doesn't end up looking like a minefield.

2) Weims outgrow many of their annoying and destructive behaviors starting around two years of age. Until then you have to make a commitment that the dog is there to stay and live with it.

3) Weims with separation anxiety never really outgrow it and compensating for it with more time/attention with them only makes it worse. They have strewn the dirty clothes and torn up your books before you have finished pulling out of the driveway.

4) If your weim isn't running the house and your life he/she is plotting to do so. It is a never ending battle. If you aren't clear about who is alpha - it is the dog. Even if you don't think so -- it is probably the dog. No matter how sweet your weim is, it must pass through doors last, yield to you when walk past it or want to sit down, and eat after you. Never let your weim have the last word, ever.

5) Your weim may be your baby, but it isn't a person. You need to learn how to think like a dog. It's ok if you love your dog as a baby dog.

6) Physical punishment typically has a negative effect with weims - your dog will sulk and punish you back and will not modify its behavior. Exhibiting displeasure works only to a limited degree if you aren't alpha.

7) Obedience class is a great idea - for YOU! If you haven't been around willful, headstrong dogs before you will learn a lot, and your dog will like it too. I promise.

Cool

Weims are very communicative and use that ability to manipulate their owners. Reacting to every whim your weim has diminishes your position as alpha. If you don't understand what I'm saying, go get me a beer from the refrigerator. Now you understand.

9) The dog you end up with is the dog you make. Your weim can and will be your best friend if you make the appropriate effort.

Haley's Dad