More vaccinations???

Cathy · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:52 am Post subject: More vaccinations???

Marley got her puppy vaccinations at 3 months old. I recently decided to take her to a different vet after the first one didn't fix her UTI. It is the vet I take my cat to, plus they charge half as much.
Last night she got spayed, and the vet told my BF that she needs boosters because the vaccinations might not work if given before a certain age. I am going to pick up Marley this afternoon and speak with her myself. The old vet said that she didn't need boosters until next June. I don't know who is right.
If anyone knows which is right, please help me. I don't want her to get sick, but I also don't want to give her too much of anything.
Thanks

Beth · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:56 am Post subject:

My vet is almost anti-vax. We only do what is required by law unless there is going to be some exposure. With my last pup, after the puppy shots with the breeder, my vet wouldn't even give rabies until 10mo of age.

weimdawgs · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:45 am Post subject:

She shouldn't need any boosters until 1 year. Check her records against the vac protocol. Don't let them give her anything until you are sure.

LuvinWeimies · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:17 pm Post subject:

At the clinic I work at we do the first Distemper-Parvo vaccination at 6-8 weeks then another at 9-11, then Rabies and another Distemper-Parvo at 12-14 weeks, then lastly another Distemper-Parvo at 15-18 weeks and with every vaccination we do a fecal examination for intestinal worms and deworm on a J.I.C. basis. Every vet. is different though.

Rosko · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:33 pm Post subject:

http://www.weimclubamerica.org/health/shots.html

That sums it up nicely. Do Rabies at or after six months.

Vaccinations are almost always WAY over done by many vets as it is a great source of high profit ratio income. Unfortunately, it means more future health problems for your pet (and, ironically, yet more money for the vet).

You should always do the absolute bare minimum needed to meet legal and local (i.e. if Lyme disease is rampant in your area you may want to consider that one as well otherwise skip it) considerations on vaccinations.

Some vaccinations (i.e. Distemper) have been linked to the onset of HOD in weims; however, it's hard to prove since HOD tends to happen to occur in the same time frame as most early shots.

The only boosters you'll need are at or after 1 year... after that you should never need vacs again.

More sources:

http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/health/common/vaccinations.html

http://www.critteradvocacy.org/K9%20Principles%20Recommend%20&%20Not.htm

anne · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:14 am Post subject:

He is likely protected by that one shot at 12 weeks old. 95% of puppies have lost their maternal antibodies by this age (the maternal antibodies would have "fought off" any previous vaccinations). A booster may make sense to give at around 12 months old, the reasoning is that the immune system is mature at this time. I personally do not feel the need to do this. After that, no more vaccinations are necessary IMO. Studies have shown that efficacy last at LEAST 7 years (longer studies have not been done). All the vet schools recommend boosters every 3 years.

Cathy · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:29 am Post subject:

Thank you all for your help. I spoke to the vet and she said that it is about the age when they get them. Marley was done at 12 weeks, but the vet thinks she should have had some later. She gave me a pamphlet, but I have not had time to read it.
I am very hesitant to have her given more shots. I would fell terrible if she got parvo or something, but I don't want to make her unnecessarily sick either.
I told the vet I would decide when I bring her back in next week to get her stitches out. When I got her home last night I gave her half of one of the the pain killers they gave me, and it knocked her out. She seriously just laid on the bed for like an hour while I ironed clothes and stuff. That is so not like her Sad

. But she was back to chasing the cat this morning Laughing

. I missed her so much for that one night.

josie · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:54 am Post subject:

Almost ALL puppies in the UK are given 1st jabs at 7-8 wks and 2nd jabs at 10 wks and that's it. (Covering: distemper, parvo, lepto, hepatitis and all the stuff I think yours are covered by.)

anne · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:55 am Post subject:

Cathy
I suggest you read the links that Rosko provided so that you know what to do. It's a personal choice weighing the pros and cons. To keep your pup safe, do your research. That way you will feel comfortable with your choice.
Anne

Cathy · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:04 pm Post subject:

I read them, and I appreciate the help.
Unless someone has an example of a dog that had vaccines that didn't work, I would like to wait until 1 year. I am against over-medication in myself, and believe that the body needs to develop a strong immune system. It makes sense that dogs wouldn't need boosters.
I don't know if I think they are trying to rip me off, but I have found way more evidence against multiple vaccinations than for it. I always feel guilty for not doing exactly what the vet says, but I'm willing to bet I read more about it this week than she has in a long time.

anne · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:10 pm Post subject:

There will always be examples of vaccines that "didn't work."
Are you sure you undertand how the maternal antibodies work? My ex had a pup that had a parvo shot and then came down with it later. Obviously the window was missed. The puppy series is done for a reason since you never know when the maternal antibiodies are gone in any individual pup. So as i said it's a matter of weighing pros and cons. At 12 weeks 95% of pups have lost their maternal antibodies, that odesn't mean that YOUR pup has lost them. There is a good chance tho.

Rosko · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject:

If you have taken your pup to dog parks or outside where other animals exist (i.e. defecate) and have not dealt with Parvo yet, your pup is probably safe.

Few people realize how prevalent Parvo actually is in the environment. Truthfully, I don't think there is a vet clinic in the world that does not have Parvo all over the floor and other surfaces in it (why many recommend not taking your pup to the vet for first shots). The virus is very resilient and can only be killed by certain things.

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=2&cat=1556&articleid=467

Parvo is probably the highest risk infection for your pup. Distemper is far less common in the environment but would be a good number two.

I would be pretty surprised to see a well socialized (with other dogs and outdoor animals) pup whose shots didn't 'stick' that avoided Parvo or Distemper myself. But, I'm no vet. I just spend way too much time researching obsurd things on the internet all day. Shocked

Cathy · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:36 am Post subject:

When I took Marley to get her stitches out last week the vet just assumed I was going to get the booster. I told her that I had spoke with a lot of people and researched everything I could find and felt that Marley was okay on the vaccinations that she had already received. She was visibly irritated with me. I wasn't going to back down just because she copped an attitude with me.
I told her that I spoke with some breeders, and she actually said "consider the source". What the hell does that mean? She's the one that gave me a pamphlet from the drug manufacturers! Evil or Very Mad

Marley has been to the dog park (a very busy one) a ton, and she has been through an eight week puppy class. After her graduation, I got a call from one of the instructors warning me that a dog that attends there had parvo (I don't think it was in my class). Marley has remained healthy and happy.
There are two vets that work at the clinic, and from now on I am requesting the other.
No one wants better for my dog than me, and I think I did the right thing.

wildlifecr13 · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:54 am Post subject:

yep. and if your vet cops an attitude - see ya.
another lesson learned during multi trip weeks with Lola - a vet that will level with you, talks honestly through things, and doesnt act like you are a complete idiot/walking checkbook, is important.
our vet and I have had several very frank conversations about treatments, quality of life issues, etc. While they are tough to have, I really appreciate the fact that she is up front and treats me like I have valid input to offer. She doesnt beat around the bush, she is honest, and if she disagrees with me, she tells me so, and tells me what she thinks - we can both be wrong, and we can both accept that there are things that we just dont know. I wouldnt put up with anything less.

Rosko · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject:

Always keep in the back of the mind this:

Most vets get about $60 or so for the 'visit'.

They also get about $20-50 for the 'shot' which only costs them about $4-6 tops.

So, a vet can conceivably make a pretty hefty profit off of vaccinations. In fact, for many 'old school' vets this is the big money maker. It takes a open-minded vet to be willing to deviate from this model and instead find other ways to supplement income besides misleading owners into thinking their pets need boosters every year. Once they do figure it out it seems most do not have trouble maintaining at least 97% of the income the vaccinations would have provided.

For me personally, I am much more inclined to 'visit' a vet that I trust and who is open to all options out there. I have been _very_ fortunate with my current vet concerning my three cats in that she not only loves the animals but always explains every imaginable option to me and outlines it's risks and benefits in a very straight forward way, usually with actual statistics (with sources even!). She does her homework so I don't have to and I have three very healthy cats as a result, one of which would have been put to sleep by two other vets several years ago (they actually recommended that and we almost did until we found our current vet)... That particular cat is probably the healthiest of the three now.

This vet also recommended that we _not_ give any more vaccinations to our cats as they had been given shots plenty before (I never did yearly anyway, more out of laziness about it and not believing it made sense to me logically... later proven by this vet and research). This was before I had any solid research based knowledge about vaccinations and I was delighted to find a vet who had confirmed my gut instinct for so many years pointing me to sources to confirm it and describing the science involved.

It really does make you feel like you are a much bigger part of your animals life and health having a good vet. I imagine some people would prefer to not bother with all this info and just want the vet to deal with it for them but I'm not that way.

I'm hoping she is equally as wonderful with our new Weim or if she points us to a dog specialist in her clinic they are also as thorough and informative.

Sorry for the long diatribe; however, it leads to me overall recommendation based on my experiences... Keep looking for a vet until you find the one that makes you feel this warm and fuzzy.

Wink