Guys Im at my wits end and I dont know what to do. Gretchen is destroying my house and Ive had enough. Let me start from the beginning. We rescued Gretchen two years ago this x mas. Some of you guys who been around a while might remember. Any way shes been a great dog for us and I considered myself lucky to have her. How ever she was always terrified of storms. and would freak out especially if she was alone. Usually taking it out on the doors tring to get out of the house. Well, in April I lost my job. Since it was a total plant closure we qualified for free schooling so thats what I opted for. So Ive been laid off since April and started school about a month ago. Now that Im not around every day her seperation anxiaty (sp.?) has gotten so bad. It has been getting worse all summer, but now that im gone every day its out of control. Its gotten to the point where she gets afraid if she hears the wind blow or if she hears it sprinkiling off the windows. She has destroyed the carpet in front of the front door, game room door, and the hard wood floor underneath 3 times. Along with the doors being scratched to hell. She has destroyed the kithcen door going to the basement,(chewed THROUGH it!) the wall around it, and the new floor that just put down last year, twice! She has destroyed the cabinet door underneth the kitchen sink (where she goes to hide).

Ive tried crating her. Shes destroyed 2 crates. 1wire and 1 plastic. Hurting herself in the process.

So now I have mismatched carpet patches in front of the doors. Im planning of getting new carpet ,but not while shes around. A kichen door and floor that I just replaced ruined... I just dont know what to do with her. Ive tried walking her before I leave etc. Nothing seems to help and its only getting worse. And being an unemployed student I sure cant afford to be replacing floors, doors, and carpet every weekend.

Ive never givin up on a dog in my life, but Im at a loss here

Have you thought about trying medication? I'm sure it's frustrating, but please also understand her life has been changed a few times this past year too, when tstuff happens to your family, it happens and effects everyone, including Gretchen. I'm not one to say throw in the towel, but if you've done everything and can't do it anymore, I'm sure TSWR would take her back...

Trust me giving her up will be a LAST resort. Im really heart broken over this. Shes a great dog other wise. It just seems everything I try to do only makes it worse. I think Im gonna try to look into a setative for her. but I really dont like the thought of it. 1. the last thing I need right now is a 100.00 a month dog pill bill. and 2.Who wants to have to drug theyre dog every time they have to leave the house. dosent seem fair to her. I dont know... what would yinz do?

Tougher crate... I've heard of people having to buy 'extreme' type crates for SA dogs... I can't remember who it was, but I know I saw at least one post about it on this board before.

Tough love sucks... I'm sorry to hear of your troubles with Gretchen

Shawn,

I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles with Gretchen. We had such an impossible time with Cache and his separation anxiety. I know how aggravating it can be. We put him on meds for a short time... we were purchasing them through out vet, and it definitely was less than $100/month. Drugs aren't used as a permanent thing either. They are typically used along with behavior modification to get your dog to a place where they can be left alone.

Rescue Remedy is a good natural remedy to try. I have heard that dogs who have anxiety issues typically act out in the first several minutes of being alone and eventually settle down to some extent. Have you tried withholding her food until you leave? I used to do this and then put it in a kong with PB or yogurt frozen on top. A dog with separation anxiety might not touch it, but I think many dogs will if they're hungry enough and it might help distract her while you are leaving initially. I don't really know.

Please let me know if you have any questions about separation anxiety or need some support. I remember how hard it was going through it with Cache. I was always so frustrated with him and cried over it almost every day. But, we're at the point now where he is okay being left alone almost all the time and will go in his crate when I tell him "naptime". I hope you can work this out.

Molly

LunaBrown wrote:Tougher crate... I've heard of people having to buy 'extreme' type crates for SA dogs... I can't remember who it was, but I know I saw at least one post about it on this board before.

This may have been me... Drs. Foster Smith makes tough crates... I haven't tried one before. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... pcatid=540

I also looked into getting the kind of crate that they use for police dogs for Cache before, but those are very expensive... $500 or so.

We're lucky enough that we just purchased a good crate and reinforced it with chains so he could not collapse it or push the tray out and he cannot get out. He has only bent one of the wires up. This was very inexpensive to do... the cost of the crate $75 + cost of chains $15 or so.

How long are you gone a day?

DoubleTrouble wrote:This may have been me... Drs. Foster Smith makes tough crates... I haven't tried one before. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... pcatid=540

That is a good crate. It's like the first one we got a few years ago. With the section of wire at the top and bottom of the door -- it goes into a little loop -- seems like it would make the door more difficult to break open than the crates with latches at the top and bottom (that the dogs can learn to open). It's also a heavier wire than I've seen on most crates around. I like it much better than the second crate we bought..and wish that we had gotten a second one of these. The price has gone up, but we think it's worth the additional cost.

Shawn,

Take a deep breath. I think I have some suggestions for you. A couple have already been mentioned. Research a very strong crate and reinforce it yourself if need be. We use heavy duty wire ties (ends clipped, of course). You can also use steel angle iron with holes punched in it to reinforce corners and sides with through bolts. Make sure the nut end is on the outside of the crate. Remove the tray and replace it with a cut -to -size piece of 1/2 plywood and glue an old piece of carpet to it. If you think luan would work better, use that. We use a piece of luan in Schatze's crate with carpet glued to it and she happily tears the carpet apart. When necessary, we put a new piece in there. It keeps her happy. Let Gretchen destroy that. You can replace it easily if you have to. We also use small carabeaners to secure the crate door. Put it in the quietest place in your house. You might even try putting a blanket over all but the front. Maybe that will make her feel safe. If you're not already, leave a TV or a radio on for her. And some treats and toys. A frozen peanut butter kong????

Try rescue remedy for her. http://www.rescueremedy.com is the website. I would also take her to the vet and get her some medication. I don't think it's that expensive. It will help her. Like Doubletrouble said, it's not forever, but you have to get her to a comfortable place. She won't be able to learn if she is always in a panic. Rescue remedy is natural so you can use it with other medication.

Exercise her as much as possible. When she has been bad, how do you react?? Try to remember how perceptive these dogs are. Try to stay calm and just take her for a walk; even if it's a short one.

I think medication and a very secure crate with something in the bottom that it's ok for her to destroy is the first step. Then maybe some conversations with Doubletrouble, who had been dealing with SA and destruction for a long time.

I'm going to keep thinking. I don't want to see you give her up.

Here's some calming aids that Drs. Foster and Smith sells: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/dog-suppl ... 3307/11260

I don't know if any of this stuff helps but it can't hurt. I see the Rescue Remedy here but it is much cheaper if you buy it from the Rescue Remedy site.

Lynn

weimdawgs wrote:Shawn,

Here's some calming aids that Drs. Foster and Smith sells: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/dog-suppl ... 3307/11260

I don't know if any of this stuff helps but it can't hurt. I see the Rescue Remedy here but it is much cheaper if you buy it from the Rescue Remedy site.

Lynn

Oh I forgot about the DAP diffusers - someone reccomended those to me when we had Gunther. I never tried it but talked to many people who swore by them. Also you can get rescue remedy from Whole Foods Market, or probably lots of other natural foods stores.

Mindy

To answer Annes ?. Shes only left alone 6hrs and only 3 days a week.

And as far as crating goes. I have the same type linked. She chewed through the wires and broke the welds and had the metal wire tear apart her gums. I have a big plastic one with a metal mesh door. She did the same to the mesh on the door. She ended up pulling the door inward, bent the door in half and ecsaped, cutting her paw and gums and chiped a tooth in the process. Ive also tried ratcet strapping it shut. She crewed through the strap. Ive anchored I bolts into the concrete wall in the basement and ratchet straped the crate backwards to the wall. She pulled the I bolts out of the wall. Im a firm believer that crating is only making it worse. She absolutly hates the crate! Everytime she sees us getting ready to leave she starts freaking out because she knows shes going in the crate. Then it takes us 15 minutes to FORCE her into it. Let alone the fact that shes hurting herself tring to get out...

Remember she is a rescue. I never crate trained her. She never needed it. And as far as I can tell her POs never crate trained her either. She sees it as a punishment not as a compfort like dogs that are crate trained from a pup do.



SIGH... The only option I can see right now is drugs. (for her, not me. Well, maybe me too )

shawn wrote:To answer Annes ?. Shes only left alone 6hrs and only 3 days a week.

And as far as crating goes. I have the same type linked. She chewed through the wires and broke the welds and had the metal wire tear apart her gums. I have a big plastic one with a metal mesh door. She did the same to the mesh on the door. She ended up pulling the door inward, bent the door in half and ecsaped, cutting her paw and gums and chiped a tooth in the process. Ive also tried ratcet strapping it shut. She crewed through the strap. Ive anchored I bolts into the concrete wall in the basement and ratchet straped the crate backwards to the wall. She pulled the I bolts out of the wall. Im a firm believer that crating is only making it worse. She absolutly hates the crate! Everytime she sees us getting ready to leave she starts freaking out because she knows shes going in the crate. Then it takes us 15 minutes to FORCE her into it. Let alone the fact that shes hurting herself tring to get out...

Remember she is a rescue. I never crate trained her. She never needed it. And as far as I can tell her POs never crate trained her either. She sees it as a punishment not as a compfort like dogs that are crate trained from a pup do.



SIGH... The only option I can see right now is drugs. (for her, not me. Well, maybe me too )

Medicating her is not the worst thing in the world. It will help her with the stress and anxiety. Can you make her a comfortable place in the basement?? Not a crate, but an enclosure??? I still think giving her something to take out her frustration on is a good idea. That's why we put the piece of wood with the carpet glued to it in Schatze's crate. She tore through the plastic tray of her crate and got to the carpet. But....the piece of carpet underneath the crate was an extra piece that was over the wall to wall. So John glued a piece of carpet to some luan and she rips away.

I will be praying that this works out.

Doesn't Chris (wildlifecr13 ) have Zoe with really bad SA? I think he built a basement kennel run for her... maybe a PM to get his attention is in order? I think he may have some helpful advice...

Do you just have Gretchen or do you have another dog? The reason I ask is that I know my dogs would probably have SA issues unless they had each other to be with while we are gone. When we are getting ready to leave, they both stand in the window and watch us leave and then head off together for a nap.

I'm really sorry to hear about this. I'm sure it is tearing you up trying to figure out what to do.

I feel your pain. I've been there while living at an apt, single, working 10 hrs a day. I tried many things.

Drugs may help but drugs alone will not work. I think Gretchen needs to be crate trained. It's will take a while but it can be done.

- start by just doing the things that gets her anxious... Like picking up your keys, or putting your shoes on, or putting your wallet/phone in your pocket.. You need to break the association of those actions with leaving and getting into the bad crate. Reward Gretchen when she is calm.
- Slowly get Gretchen to go in her crate. Use treats and rewards. If you can't get her in there without pulling on her .. then start small... get her within 10 feet of the crate and sitting, 5 feet, inside with door open, inside sitting, inside laying down, inside laying down for a min, 2,5 min ... inside laying down and you walk away for 10 sec, 30 sec, etc.... you get the idea .... it takes baby steps but she will get it and get over her Anxiety with the crate.

Make sure you reward her every time she is calm and does what you ask.

I hope it works out for you and you decide to keep Gretchen. I know it's not easy, many people on the forum have dealt with a SA dog. My wife asked me if I would ever get another Weim after living with one who has (still) SA... I told her heck yes, Weims are the best breed in my mind, even with their "issues". Many of which can be minimized with some basic training and exercise.


My pit/lab mix is the crate destroyer...Not my Weim! The Weim used to stand, pace, poop, & pee in his crate when he was mad that he was left alone. He hasn't been too bad in the crate lately (knocks on wood)!!

The crate on left is the uber crate. We had to get ir for Leila ... Made my Zinger Winger and it's not cheap ... like $350. She still managed to get her jaws around those vertical bars and bend / break 2 .. So I sent the door back to Zinger and they welded 2 1" wide aluminum bars across those vertical bars. She hasn't even tried to bite the bars since.

The crate on the left is Forrest's. I bought it from Pet Smart about 5 years ago and have not been able to find it since. It's a great crate, there is no pan the sides clip down to a plastic base. However, leila was still able to get out of this one!



This next pic shows what Leila can do to a standard wire crate (left). There is a better picture of Forrest's crate on the right.