hey prong advocates..

hoochmamas · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: hey prong advocates..

since we moved, hooch is impossible in the new neighborhood to walk.. i know it is not his fault.. lots of new dog smells, and all of the leaves piled around to walk thru and mark up.. us being unsure of a route.. our routine all messed up.. him not being neutered yet.. it is surely a compilation of things..

the training harness isn't working at all.. the martingale he just chokes himself and doesn't care.. it is impossible to correct him now.. i can barely keep his head up.. and can't get him to walk in a heel for more than 30 seconds.. as soon as i treat him for going "slow".. he pulls off again. i've gone back to standing like a tree, changing direction, all the tricks i used when he was a puppy.. nothing is helping to get him refocused, and i am getting really frustrated..

so.. i broke down and bought a prong.. i am hoping for it to be a temporary tool to get him refocused on me when we walk..

so.. do you attach the leash to both rings, or just one?
the website says to use both, so there is less give before a correction.. but i was curious what everyone else does..
i already sized it on him.. it sits right behind his ears.. i walked him around the house with it on yesterday, and rewarded him when putting it on and taking it off, and acted real enthusiastic, even though i was nervous inside.
how do you use it?

Christina · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:30 am Post subject:

I am sure you have probably already tried this, but figured I would mention just in case. With Sagira we use training treats. Very small pieces of food that she doesn't really have to chew. We keep then by our side and that keeps her focused on us and teacher to "watch us" for her next command.

versatilek9s · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 7:57 am Post subject:

The key: Make absolutely sure that the collar stays loose unless you're making a correction.

The collar is being used the wrong way if the dog pulls against it constantly. A quick pop and off you go when he starts to pull.

Deiota · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:46 am Post subject:

OMG we're having the same problem...
did the prong work out better on hooch? which harness do you have?
deiota

Symon · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:16 am Post subject:

First off, congrats on your new purchase. Don't be nervous, it is an excellent tool when used properly. I was very nervous. To put me at ease my obedience instructor put it on my husband and gave him a hard correction and he was fine...seriously LOL!!

How to use it....yes attach to both rings. A proper correction is a quick pull and release, not constant pressure (that will make him freak). You will know how hard your correction needs to be based on your dog. If you leave your flat collar on, make sure it is above your flat collar. Command (one time), correct, praise. As he progress, leave the prong on but attach to the flat. If he regresses, reattach to your prong (leave your flat on). You will know when you can go back to only your flat collar.

My dog only needs to hear the prong. I generally just have to "rattle" the prong and that is enough to say I mean business. My guy responded immediately to it with very little correction. It looks much worse than it is. Remember, it simulates a "pinch", or bite like mom used to give to tell him she was not happy so this is not an unfamilar feeling. I do not use treats with the prong. I want him to please me not do something for a treat. Remember, Command (one time only), correct, praise. I t will amaze you how quickly things turn around. Good luck!

hoochmamas · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:39 am Post subject:

hoochmamas · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 9:44 am Post subject:

Imaweimlover · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:09 am Post subject:

hoochmamas · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:24 am Post subject:

just went for a short walk with the prong..
my man still pulled, although it was reduced significantly.. he didn't yelp, but seemed a little unsure.. we did great until a big old boxer we haven't met came.. he pulled like a lunatic.. didn't care that i popped the collar and said "don't".. just wanted to say hi to the dog.. i sat him down with his back to the dog, but he muscled out of it.. i finally had to just drag him away because the other owner just stood there holding his dog, who was being a lunatic, too..
UGGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!

it is hard to keep the loop part to the side when he is all over the place.. it is hard to keep HIM at my side with all of the smells.. i am trying and trying.. but i am starting to lose my patience. i don't want to treat him besides putting it on and talking it off because that will lead to our original problem of pulling off after the reward. i WILL persevere!!!

massweimy · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: treats

Don't treat him just let him know it's in your hand he may jump a bit but just keep walking forward for a block then treat when he sits put another treat in hand rinse repeat it happened to me when I stayed at my sisters for a week.

I did that and also normal walking training and she was back into normal walk mode by the 2nd day. Just keep changing directions and power walk they have a harder time sniffing if they have to trot it keeps their heads up only stopping to let him pee where you choose once he has established a territory with pee he should be back to normal walking in no time.

yoko · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:05 am Post subject:

Oh I was SO hoping you'd say it worked like magic when you tried it! But like you said' persevere and I bet it will.

I am there with you on this...before I left for work I asked my husband to buy the prong today because my musclea are sore from the past few days of walking yoko. She has been pulling so much and I'm afraid I'm going to wipe out if she pulls me on ice or slippery leaves.

I'm just worried about what next if the prong doesn't work for us. Oh what am I saying, it will, right?!

Ok, I will be thinking positive no pull hooch thoughts for you!!!

Sue

kcolsey · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: keep at it!

I know many people are hesitant to use the prong collar, but keep in mind that it won't pinch the dog at all once they are trained to walk properly with it. Yes, dogs will test it out when it is first introduced. However, they soon learn that pulling=pinching. I have used a prong collar for Gracie with great success. It took some time for us both to get used to it, but now she does not even try to pull with it on. I walk her several times a day and I feel absolutely no guilt for using the prong...she has come to understand that there are consequences for pulling, not such a bad thing!!! Very Happy

I suggest that you keep using the prong until you see results.

OtherDawg · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject:

I am a super huge advocate for the prong collar. We took a pointing dog obedience class with Luna after we took the click and treat puppy class. They introduced the prong collar to us on the first or second night and it was absolutely amazing the difference we saw out of Luna after only one class and a week of work with her. She still looks at me like I hit her when we put it on her, but as soon as the lead is attached and we're out the gate, she resumes her normal peppy self. She'll test her bounds with the prong a bit, but as soon as you give it a quick snap and issue a command she's on her best behavior. We have done a lot of heeling work with her, and she has taken to it very well. We heel when we cross the street, we heel when there are other people walking near by, we heel when we walk past a yard with dogs in it. One of the things to remember about that is that you should just keep walking, pretend like there are no other dogs in the world, just yours. We have used the prongs on all of the fosters as well, and after a couple of corrections, they have all picked up very quickly. It's something you have to make sure you work with so they understand it. I'm not going to advocate the same things our trainer did, he was from the school that if you corrected, and the dog didn't make a peep, you didn't correct hard enough. I believe that if you correct and the dog's behavior changes, you have corrected hard enough. That's just my two bits. Oh and I was told that I should probably add that Luna looks at us like we hit her when ever we correct her in any way. We have never actually hit her. And the look I speak of is when they eyes get all big and sad, and the ears lie as flat as they can against their head, and their little nubs tuck as far as they can go. She's fine, but she understands business.

DukesMom · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:54 pm Post subject:

Keep trying! I know it will work. What it has done for my dogs is a miracle. I can't imagine that Hooch could be any worse than Duke was. They are so strong aren't they? There is also training involved here and you need to work on that also. I pretty much can control my dogs around other dogs now and it's great! And honestly I don't think it is just the prong, but obedience too. The prong has just allowed me to teach them to be obedient without a huge battle.

massweimy · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: prong

I have used a flat collar for 30 years but now use prong for training. Wish I knew about them when I trained my husky.

I just want to say like humans dogs have varying sensitivity. Before I used the prong on Remmie I did the same thing they showed on it's me or the dogs and it did not hurt me. I also put it on the right way completely around my neck. I pulled on it as if I was a dog while it was not comfortable it was far from painful and I did not get white spots either. I want to also say that I have a very high pain threshold and had it fitted correctly in the show he did not and just pushed the prongs into his neck. Think of Indian nail bed when using the prong while one nail = peirced skin a bunch of nails laid out the right way does not pierce and even holds you up. That's the difference when you actually fit it right.

Now with that said if you use Ceaser leash handling style with lots of hard snaps then I would not recommend a prong collar. If you use it the way it is intended with occasional light pulls then I would go for it. I know my Weim likes this collar way more then me snapping the lead which frustrates Weims or having a tug of war with her using her larynx as her leverage with a flat collar. Also you can use two leads attach one to flat and one to prong and only use the prong to correct it's up to you.

Also remember that she is a Ian Dunbar trainer (The original Dog Whisper)and on a competing show so she has to do certain things to beat and differentiate her show from his.

Now shock collars I don't agree with even when used right. (to easy to abuse it could turn into that Simpson's episode when they went to family counseling)There are to many other things I can do as a able bodied person before needing that. Now for someone that had special needs I would not rule it out as something to use for them to aid them in training such as in a case of my mom she has Gout which makes it harder for her to walk fast etc.