colouring of the breed

barb · Puppy Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 9

I went out and bought a digital camera today and will be sending the pictures in an hour or so. Barb

RK · Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

i'm terrible at math (didn't make it past pre-calc in h.s.) but designers are supposed to very oriented that way (designers are supposed to be good at geometry but i sucked at it when i was in h.s.! i'm better now...i think becoming a designer made me better in that regard!). i think that's why my h.s. art teacher use to say that i was a "left-brained" artist.

BustaGirl · Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

Hi Barb,

Digital Camera's are great & having puppies around I'm sure u will get plenty of use out of it Very Happy

ALPHA-FEMALE · Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

According to various authors, many believe that Weimaraner ancestry can be traced back the 13th century descendents of a breed called the Chien Gris de Saint Louis (Gray Hounds of St. Louis). Apparently this breed originated in the Middle East and was brought back to Europe after the Crusades.

However, I’m not sure if anyone definitively knows the breeds that contributed the Weim’s genetic make-up because of the guarded breeding practices at the time (19th Century Germany). Many speculate that ancestors of the Weimaraner could include the Leithund, a German scent-hound, the St. Hubertus Bracken, an ancestor to the bloodhound, and the Spanish Pointer.

Whatever the genetic background, Weimaraners are unquestionably an intelligent and versatile breed that has captured all our hearts.

GrayGhost · Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

barb · Puppy Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 9

I can't get the picture attached-how do I do this? I have some good ones to show you. I really think that what you said about the dilution gene could be it-it will be interesting to hear what you have to say.

GrayGhost · Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

I sent you a private message. If you are still having problems, you can just email them to me.

GrayGhost · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 1:45 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

Ok, here are the resized pictures Barb.

GrayGhost · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

I was really hoping that I could rule out the parents producing this pup, but given the picture, I cannot. This is theoretically possible, but extremely unusual, and would indicate an impurity.

The pup is clearly bbddss. In order for this to happen, both parents would have to have carried a recessive s. In other words, both parents would have to be bbddSs. This is the ONLY way that they could pass this on and not have it show up in their own coats. Something like this could carry a ways before two Weims with this met up and bred. Personally, I would look for a common ancestor for your dogs. When/if you do find that common ancestor, you will probably find the source of this impurity.

It is still somewhat possible that there was another dog that bred your bitch. But from the pup, I can ascertain that the dog would have to carry brown, would have to carry a dilution gene, and would have to carry white spotting.

GrayGhost · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

Just in case you were wondering if it was the parents, why only one puppy was like this, here is why:

Statistically, 50% would be "normal" but carry white, 25% would be totally "normal" and NOT carry white, and only 25% would look like your pup.

So in any given litter, there will only be a 25% chance of this showing up. However, the majority of your pups would carry this impurity. Statistically, only 25% of your litter WOULD NOT carry this trait on.

If you are absolutely certain that that your bitch was not bred by another dog, I would be doing some heavy research into BOTH parents lineage because BOTH would have to carry this for it to happen. Look for a common ancestor. I would talk to the kennels where you got these dogs too.

RK · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

grayghost—what is s?

it looks like GSP markings but with dilute coloring?

barb—did you get your dogs from the same breeder? are they somehow related?

i would not breed this pair again to either each other or to any other dog because of the impurity. then i would require the new owners of the pups to spay/neuter so this does not get passed along. i would also inform your dogs' breeder of the impurity as their other dogs would also carry this gene—right grayghost?

btw, barb, they are so cute. puppies...

GrayGhost · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

I failed to mention earlier, even if your bitch bred to another male, the white color wouldn't be possible unless she carried it too.

So I can say, with almost absolute certainty, that at least one of your dogs is carrying genes that are not supposed to be present in the gene pool. The most likely explanation would be a GSP several generations back.

If you breed a Weim to a GSP, the resulting dogs will all be solid liver and carry a dilution gene. They would however be carriers of white. If you breed one of those dogs back to a Weim again, some of the resulting puppies would be silver. These silver puppies would be virtually indistinguishable from other Weimaraners, except that they could carry white.

There are individuals that truly believe that by crossing Weimaraners with GSPs, they are improving the breeds hunting ability. This may have been a result of this type of thinking.

RK, the S Locus determines white.

barb · Puppy Joined: 14 Jul 2005 Posts: 9

Thank you for your help and I will look into things. We love them just the same, but it is interesting to find out what maybe going on! Barb

ALPHA-FEMALE · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

Barb,

Even though it's not a pure-breed puppy, I think it is absolutely precious. I'm positive that it will mature into a beautiful dog. I would love to more pictures as they grow.

BustaGirl · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: colouring of the breed

Yes I agree with Alpha_Female, they are sooo sweet looking Smile

More photo's please....